A question for the christian scholars

Published on June 24, 2005 By dharmagrl In Misc

Ok, I already posed this question on another thread, but I want to ask again.

Why, if God is a single entity, does it say at the end of Genesis 1 'let US make them in OUR image'?

Why the plural there?

Thanks in advance for any answers....

Comments (Page 4)

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on Jun 24, 2005

--I've heard that God is not only the Trinity...but that there is a Mother God, the "half" that is empathetic,and caring..then there is father god...which is the "other half"

Texas Wahine

on Jun 25, 2005

Heh, this is part of the reason why I gave up. If the Bible can't get its act together, why should I have to?

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on Jun 25, 2005

Heh, this is part of the reason why I gave up. If the Bible can't get its act together, why should I have to?

--Another thing is, what if the bible is written clearly,but we,humans, are just too primative,ignorant,etc... to fully understand what i means...hmmm?

dharmagrl

on Jun 25, 2005

Heh, this is part of the reason why I gave up. If the Bible can't get its act together, why should I have to?

Well, that's one way of looking at it...

I've heard that God is not only the Trinity...but that there is a Mother God, the "half" that is empathetic,and caring..then there is father god...which is the "other half"

That's actually preety close to the way Gnostics look at it.....and that's one of my opinions about why 'we' and 'us' are used.

Despite over 12 years of Catholic schooling, all I can come up with is that I try not to take the Bible seriously, especially the Old Testament parts.

Yeah, no shit....

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on Jun 25, 2005

That's actually preety close to the way Gnostics look at it.....and that's one of my opinions about why 'we' and 'us' are used

--ahhh, its how my mom views it...as well as my sister,brother is atheist(i think,he and i have never discussed relgion,we have a better subject; video games/computers) everyone else in my family is either agnostic or catholic...i'm the "oddball" of the group in that i chose buddhism...they're all fine with it......

MarcieMoo

on Jun 25, 2005

That's the problem. Because we don't know for sure what is meant by each verse and passage, we have to rely on our own interpretation. Unfortunately, there's no 'Guide To The Bible - what I meant when I said that' by god or christ or anyone else. It would help if there were, and I'm sure there wouldn't have been near as many wars, cursades etc etc etc as there have been if something like that were available.

And that's what I'm saying...there's nothing to interpret.

If you just take something at face value, no one has to worry about interpreting it and it only has one meaning. Maybe certain parts of the Bible are meant to be difficult or confusing on purpose? I don't know. lol

if we take the bible literally, we can't eat pork, or shellfish. We wouldn't have an established church. We have to marry the widows of our brothers etc... We also have to accept literally the book of Revelations, which makes 0 sense at all. Going with a literal interpretation is how you get the widest varrying interpretations because everyone likes to believe one passage is more important than another etc.

Karen understands this part...Jesus changed everything. He told people to "screw the laws" pretty much. He knew there was absolutely NO one that could ever abide by all those rules. HE was the only one that could do it. He's the rule breaker. If you think about it...the Bible is kind of about evolution. The evolution of man, our governments, our leaders, our rules. If the Bible were being written now instead of 2000 years ago...it wouldn't make sense to people in 4000 AD either, you know? Our rules are going to be nullified probably.

Every time we got a new ruleset, they were really supposed to replace the old ones. It was God going "Hrrm... ok, the previous approach didn't work... lets try something else" It was us, in our drive to complicate the world more than it needs to be.

It wasn't God screwing up. It was us. Jesus said that the greatest commandments were these: To love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. I tend to see the OT as being the background knowledge of Israel that we need to know before Jesus shows up. Here's all this crap that happened: This big power struggle between Israel and God--a game of tug of war if you will: and then here's the tie-breaker: Jesus. There wasn't any more need for the struggle anymore...

A literal translation gives us a universe that was created in 6 days. By interpretation of those words, we should be the center of the universe.
A literal translation gives us a man, and a woman that then give birth to two sons. No daughters if I remember right. No genetic variation. Are we all inbred?
A literal translation gives us men who lived hundreds of years in a time before any modern medicine existed.
A literal translation would have us conducting animal sacrifices
A literal translation would have had the Second Coming of Christ a long long long time ago.

So God really couldn't have made the universe in 6 24-hour periods? I don't see why not. If He's God, surely He's capable of that. Then again, God's timetable has never really been ours. Maybe a "day" at the time that portion of the Bible was written was a different length?

The Bible doesn't tell us everything. There's two options with Adam and Eve as far as I can see: God was making other people on the side, or Adam and Eve had other children than the author of Genesis was compelled to write about. Are we inbred? Well...God gave Cain the boot when Abel died...and Cain married a woman outside the Garden of Eden, correct? I wonder how that happened? I don't have the answer...I don't need it either. All I know is that we're here, and that's what matters.

I don't think there was illness to speak of like we had today. And if people lived to be a thousand years old, they could probably reproduce for at least 700 of those years. God told them to go forth and populate the Earth, and with so few people, it would have been hard to do with such short lifespans. God provides ways if it's His will.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. All the sacrifices of unblemished lambs, goats, and bulls wasn't enough to satisfy God, and make our sin right with him. A cow isn't equal to a human. A pigeon isn't equal to a human. ONLY a human death would be able to make things right with God--and once that happened there wasn't a need for animal sacrifice anymore.

The second coming? How so? I don't recall Jesus saying as he was doing his "Spirit in the Sky" act "Hey bros! Look to the east in about a thousand years...I'll be coming!" He said he'd come SOON. And God's timetable ISN'T ours.

I think sometimes people get so critical of God because they see these things in the Bible and wonder why they're not done yet. I'm thankful that I'm kinda stupid that way and I'm okay with not knowing everything. That doesn't mean I don't have questions...I have plenty. But I think its okay to let God be God and do His work...you know?

Ionolast

on Jun 25, 2005

Heh, this is part of the reason why I gave up. If the Bible can't get its act together, why should I have to?

AMEN! It's a waste of time. Stop trying to determine what God wants and a great burden will be lifted.

dharmagrl

on Jun 25, 2005

AMEN! It's a waste of time. Stop trying to determine what God wants and a great burden will be lifted

I know that feeling very well.

If He's God, surely He's capable of that

If he's god, he's capable of more too.

...i'm the "oddball" of the group in that i chose buddhism...they're all fine with it......

Me too! How long have you been practicing? I'm on my 5th year now!

lifehappens

on Jun 25, 2005

The Godhead is made up of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit

To elaborate....three SEPARATE beings united in purpose, not self. (not GOD with MPD,)

bakerstreet

on Jun 25, 2005

I think it is interesting that we can make science fiction TV shows 26-per season that gives us aliens to which time and space are manipulatable, but for some reason when you say that 10 billion years to us could be 6 days to God people get all skeptical...

The mere fact that people expect bronze-age humans to scientifically describe God and all of God's works is telling. 90% of the people who turn on their computers can't tell you how electrons can be used to blog, and yet they seem to have faith in the fact it is going to work when they press the button.

Surely a student of Buddhism couldn't presume to "know" things at the level that the nay-sayers here impose on Christianity. God, is, well God, afterall. If what He does was easily explained and replicated then we, someday, could make ourselves God's through technology.

Ionolast

on Jun 25, 2005

If what He does was easily explained and replicated then we, someday, could make ourselves God's through technology.

What do you think cloning is?

dharmagrl

on Jun 25, 2005

for some reason when you say that 10 billion years to us could be 6 days to God people get all skeptical...

I have no problem with the bible's overall message. Not in the slightest. The problem I DO have is with people who take the bible literally and refuse to consider anything other than the theory of creation in 6 human days. It says 6 days in the bible, therefore it must mean exactly that - 6 days. That's the problem I was trying to explain when I said I had an issue with taking the bible literally.

Surely a student of Buddhism couldn't presume to "know" things at the level that the nay-sayers here impose on Christianity.

I don't presume to know much of anything, to be honest. The only things I 'know' are those which I have myself found to be true...by my own experience. I can say that I 'think' otherwise, but I don't 'know'. That's the beauty of Buddhism (for me, anyway) - it doesn't require me to put faith in anything that I cannot see or find for my own self to be true. I 'think' many things that I haven't yet had the opportunity to find to be the truth...some of which I won't know until my heart stops beating and my life ends.

If I had to sum up my outlook on life in a single sentence, it would be much the same as I believe the overall message of Christianity to be: 'be most excellent to each other'.

bakerstreet

on Jun 25, 2005

"That's the beauty of Buddhism (for me, anyway) - it doesn't require me to put faith in anything that I cannot see or find for my own self to be true."

And yet, basically nothing about Buddhism is more quantifiable that that of Christianity. You can't say that Buddhist cosmology is self-apparent. Have you decided to adhere to their idea of the beginnings of the universe? What about all these Gods and titans, demons and demigods? Some buddhists have their gods and hell and demons, too.

So, do you have as much of a problem with them as you do with Christian literalists? Is their belief that you won't reach enlightenment with your attitude as bothersome to you as Christians who think you are going to burn in hell? If not, why? If so, why just choose Christians to point to for this kind of mythology?

Look at the intricate Catholic heirarchy of angels and saints and sins and virtues that are basically non-existant to your average Baptist. Then look at this description of Samsara. Are we really talking about a religion that doesn't have any metephysical aspects, or a religion that you yourself have decided to adhere to in your own way?

How's that different than the literalist principles you are differing with here? To you, all the "believe in the 6 day creation or burn in hell" is silly. Guess what, it is to me, too. I'm sure there are many aspects of Buddhism that you don't buy into either.

You pass by someone every day, I have no doubt, that believes in UFOs, or witchcraft, or inner earth, or giant government conspiracies. Does it rub off? Do they stop you and demand you adopt their beliefs?

Am I wronged when someone tries to persuade me to believe socialist ideals are valid? When a wiccan tries to tell me that all my holidays are really pagan and I should cast off all the affectation, should I feel threatened? Why, then, do people see fundamentalist Christians trying to spread their message as a threat or a bother?

If we live in a nation wherein people are allowed to stand on the sidewalk and scream their opinions at me, I don't really get why Christians spreading their message is so bad. They aren't standing on the street and throwing red paint at you. What if Fundamentalist Christianity adopted the tactics of PETA or NOW?

dharmagrl

on Jun 25, 2005

So, do you have as much of a problem with them as you do with Christian literalists?

Yes, I do. Buddhism is often described as 'the middle way'. You can believe basically what you want to. If you want to go with Mahayana Buddhism and it's Tara's and prayer flags, you can....or you can go with the Zen school of thought. Either way, you can still be Buddhist. We don't regard any one person as being more 'right' than the next...it's all about what we ourselves found to be true. My truths today are not going to be the same as my truths tomorrow because there are things that I have yet to experience (if that makes sense). I happen to think that there are parts of Buddhism (particularly in The Tibetan Book Of The Dead) that are as much hogwash as the 6 day creation story - but that doesn't stop me from being Buddhist and adhering to the other major precepts, just as your non-belief in it makes you any less Christian (in your eyes anyway, I'm sure there are those who would say that it negates your entire experience).

Are we really talking about a religion that doesn't have any metephysical aspects, or a religion that you yourself have decided to adhere to in your own way?

We're talking about the middle way.

To you, all the "believe in the 6 day creation or burn in hell" is silly. Guess what, it is to me, too. I'm sure there are many aspects of Buddhism that you don't buy into either.

Yes, there are, and I've already explained them.

Why, then, do people see fundamentalist Christians trying to spread their message as a threat or a bother?

Because it's not just Christ's message of love, tolerance and compassion that they're spreading. They tell people what they should and should not read, what they should and should not tolerate...people feel dictated to. Not to mention the 'I'm going to heaven and you're not because you aint been born again' aspect.

I don't really get why Christians spreading their message is so bad.

I think that before we can debate that point we have to decide exactly what the christian message is. Don't you? I already said what MY impression of the christian message is. What's yours?

MasonM

on Jun 25, 2005

The problem I DO have is with people who take the bible literally and refuse to consider anything other than the theory of creation in 6 human days. It says 6 days in the bible, therefore it must mean exactly that - 6 days.

And why is this a problem for you? If that's what someone chooses to believe how does it harm you or cause you problems in any way? I have my own views on some of these issues but I certainly don't feel the need to debate beliefs. Besides, if God is an all powerful being capable of creating an entire universe, complete with intelligent life, I would venture to say that He is capable of doing pretty much whatever He feels like, including doing it all in 6 days if that's what He wanted. Or with no time having passed at all. Or using whatever time reference He chooses.

The simple truth of the matter is that there is absolutely no way to prove He did or He didn't and debating the issue becomes one of simply debating beliefs. When dealing with spiritual and/or supernatural ideas, people are going to believe what they choose to believe.

As for reading every part of the Bible as literal, any serious scholar of the Bible will tell you that it would be absurd to do so. Various parts were written using different styles, some with a great deal of symbolism, and often phrases or examples which were meaningful to the people of the time, but less so to us today. Some parts were written literally, some parts were more symbolism. The writing style and context are what tells us which is which. This is why people are told to study the Bible, not merely read it.

For example, "40 days and 40 nights" in the bible is not a literal or precise measurement of time. It was a commonly used phrase which meant "a long time" or "several weeks". When Jesus said "I am the door". He wasn't saying that he was literally a door made of wood and that He had hinges.

That phrase made a lot of sense to people who were intimately familiar with herding sheep. At night a sheep herder would often round up the sheep into a kind of corral made of thorns to protect them from predators. He would then sleep laying across the entrance to the corral, thus acting as the "door". It was a common practice at that time and anyone would have instantly understood the reference.

Even today we use figurative phrases in our every day speech and writing so I fail to understand why this becomes a problem when it comes to the Bible. With the possible exception of a text book, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any contemporary book that doesn't contain both literal phrases and figurative ones. This is a normal means of communicating ideas and the Bible is not somehow an exception to this.

As for parts of the New Testament referencing the Old, I am not sure why this is a problem for you as there are hundreds of references to the Old Testament in the New. For the Jew, the Scriptures were their source of knowledge about God, society, and law. It should be no surprise that New Testament writers would make frequent reference to them. They often did so in order to set the mindframe of the reader, a sort of refresher or reminder, or to demonstrate the validity of something by showing how it relates to their Scriptures. Because one was written a long time after the other doesn't somehow invalidate it, it actually ties them together.

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