Why are you praying for that?

Published on August 29, 2005 By dharmagrl In Misc

A few years ago, my husband's grandmothers sister (which would make her my great aunt) was put in an nursing home.

She was in her 80's, and had recently suffered a series of strokes which had left her unable to care for herself.

Dave and I were over visitng and offered to take grandma to see her sister. We trooped into Myrtle's room, expecting to see her sitting up in bed, watching TV or reading - at the very least we expected her to be aware of her surroundings.

What we found was VERY different. Myrtle, bless her heart, was in a state not unlike that of an infant human. She could open her eyes, but she showed no signs of recognizing her sister or us. She had a urinary catheter, a diaper, a feeding catheter, an IV, and she was wearing restraints to stop her from pulling her tubes out. She laid there, and she moaned. She rocked from side to side (as much as the restraints would allow her to) and she moaned.

This went on the entire time we were there. We talked to her, she moaned. We tried to reassure her she was safe; that we were there, and she rocked and moaned. There was no recognition in her eyes or on her face at the sight of us or the sound of our voices. 'Myrtle' wasn't there. The body that was lying in that bed was simply an animated husk. Myrtle was long gone.

D's grandma's a devout christian. She's a firm believer in the power of prayer. She turned to me and she said "I've been praying for poor Myrtle to come out of this and be restored back to herself again, but I don't think God's listening to me".

I didn't know what to say. My first response would have been "WTF are you praying for that for? I'd be praying for this poor woman to die and be released from this misery she's trapped in" (obviously I didn't say it, but I thought it). I mean, Myrtle was in her late 80's. She'd had a longer than average life. Was praying for her to be "restored" realistic? And why was grandma praying for that anyway? Was it because she couldn't bear for Myrtle to die and be taken from her? I can understand that, nobody likes their loved ones to go away forever, but c'mon.....there comes a time when I honestly think it's better to pray for a person's release than thier restoration.

Why DO people pray for things like this? For their loved ones to be saved? Why do they pray for the 'against all odds' act of grace to happen, for whoever it is they're praying for to be saved or spared death? And how do they feel when their prayers aren't answered? Do they feel like God's let them down? Or are they happy to take a back seat and say "this hurt me, but I'm trusting you...you must have a plan for me that didn't involve this". What is God DOESN'T have a plan? What is this is all random choas, if shit just happens and it's up to us to deal with it?

What then?

Why do people pray for things that just don't make sense?

(Myrtle died in her sleep later that year. I rejoiced)

Comments (Page 1)

Manopeace

on Aug 29, 2005

I trust you rejoiced at her life... not her death.
This reminds me of a Jewish joke would you believe....
Moses supposedly lived to the age of 120... so the traditional Jewish blessing on ones' birthday is "You should live to 120".

Now the joke.....
What do you say to someone that just reached their 120th birthday?
"Have a nice day".....
oy!!!

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

I trust you rejoiced at her life... not her death.

It was a bit of both, actually. I was honestly glad that she'd been released from the torture that she'd been trapped in.

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

But rejoicing at a loved one's release from a prison of pain...nothing at all wrong with that

My mother said that she never, ever thought that she'd be on her knees praying for someone to die...until her mother became terminalally ill with pancreatic cancer. The she said that she was on her knees three or four times a day, praying for a release from the pain for her mum.

Another example of people praying for things that don't make sense is this hurricane that's beating the crap out of Louisiana et al right now. A few folks stayed behind, confident that their god would answer their prayers and divert the hurricane even though it was obvious that it was headed right for them. Why pray for that? Why not pray for safe passage out of the area and for food and shelter until it passed?

MasonM

on Aug 29, 2005

I think people pray for these things more for themselves than for the afflicted person. When someone dies we feel pain and loss.

Personally, I would much rather die a quick death as to be in some limbo of pain and disorientation in some hospital bed.

While some people's prayers may not make sense to you (or me), I'm sure it makes perfect sense to them at the time. The human mind is extremely complex and varied and what makes sense to you or me may make no sense at all to someone else. What a boring old world this would be if everyone thought the exact same way.

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

While some people's prayers may not make sense to you (or me), I'm sure it makes perfect sense to them at the time

The same could be said for a schizophrenic person in the middle of a hallucination. What they do makes perfect sense to them at the time, but it odesn't make sense to the rest of us.....

I DO understand that people think that their god can work miracles, however....I am reminded sometimes of the joke about the man hangin off the cliff. He's hanging there by his fingertips, a 100ft drop and certain death beneath him. he starts praying aloud, asking god to please save him....and then a man with a dog comes by and offers to pull him up. "no thanks" says the dude. "I'm waiting for god to save me. I asked, I'm sure he will". After a while, a helicopter comes into view, and the pilot drops a line to the man, telling him to grab it so he can lift him off the cliff. "No, it's ok...I'm waiting for god to rescue me" says the dude. pretty soon, his arms get so tired that he can't hold on anymore, and he falls to his death. After he's died his soul goes to heaven, and as he's walking through the pearly gates he sees gos. "hey!" he said "I thought that you were going to rescue me! Instead you let me fall and die! What's up with that??". "hey yourself" says god "...and I sent you a man and a helicopter, what more did you want??"

I think people pray for these things more for themselves than for the afflicted person.

EXACTLY.

foreverserenity

on Aug 29, 2005

I agree with Mason Dharma. You also have to remember people pray because they have hope. Hope that whatever the affliction is, it will get better.

Prayers might not make sense to those who don't believe in it or in Jesus Christ, however it does make sense to the believers and it has been proven time and again to work. I'm sitting here today because prayers worked for me. And at the time I almost died from an affliction that happened to me when I was a teenager.

People pray because they have faith and they want to believe that there's someone (God) out there (even if you believe in whatever "God" you believe in),who will hear their cries for help, or their anquish, whatever it maybe. Because it does make them feel better. It comforts them that someone else is there to take the burden away.

Nobody likes pain and they certainly don't like to see their loved ones in pain or sick and dying. When they pray for that person to recover it's just that thing that makes us want them to do so because we want things to be the way they were, because we love that person, because we always hope against all odds. And then when we let go is when we've come to the realization that what we pray for is what's not meant to be. Some people don't get this part until the bitter end. And then they realized that it's all for the best.

Hope is forever eternal and if we all lose it then we might as well all roll over.

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

When they pray for that person to recover it's just that thing that makes us want them to do so because we want things to be the way they were, because we love that person, because we always hope against all odds.

So it's really the person praying for themselves, not for their loved one?

foreverserenity

on Aug 29, 2005

So it's really the person praying for themselves, not for their loved one?

It's a little of both. You pray for the person to recover and in doing so you're praying for them to be healthy and strong so you don't have to worry.

So I guess if you really want to look at it that way, praying can be selfish but it is also selfless.

There's a phrase in the bible (and I don't remember which book/chapter/verse) where God said you must remember to also pray for yourself. I guess that's always foremost in our minds.

MasonM

on Aug 29, 2005

So it's really the person praying for themselves, not for their loved one?

I think that is as varied as people themselves. One person may feel true compassion and being praying for the person while another is praying more for their own comfort. The intent and motivations vary as much as the people themselves.

The one consistant thing about people is they are inconsistant. I don't think any generality will apply to everyone or even "most".

Personally, I think each person finds their comfort in their own way. For some, they find comfort in denigrating the beliefs and practices of other people, others in prayer, and still others in various and sundry other ways.

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

For some, they find comfort in denigrating the beliefs and practices of other people,

Why is it that whenever I ask a question about Christianity or theology that gets tossed out? The scenario I gave could easily have been applied to a Hindu person, a Jewish person...any belief system that has a deity. It's not just Chrsitianity I was questioning...the scenario I gave involved a person who was a devout Christian, so obviously I mentioned that, but nowhere else in the article did I specifically mention Christianity. In fact, the first person to respond is Jewish.

I'm not even asking to be antagonistic. I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested. I WANT to get people's perspective on this, I WANT to know what/how they feel if their prayers aren't answered.

Seems to me that people can't ask questions or make comments about Christianity without some of it's followers screaming foul and harrassment. Are people always this touchy about their faith? It makes it damn hard to have a discussion about it.....

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

There's a phrase in the bible (and I don't remember which book/chapter/verse) where God said you must remember to also pray for yourself. I guess that's always foremost in our minds.

Thank you! That's EXACTLY the kind of response I'm looking for.

MasonM

on Aug 29, 2005

I'm not even asking to be antagonistic. I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested. I WANT to get people's perspective on this, I WANT to know what/how they feel if their prayers aren't answered.

Huh? There was no accusation made towards you. I think it's a legitimate question and was trying to give what I perceive as a suitable answer to some statements/questions made. I don't recall mentioning a specific belief system either, just presented some examples of how varied people's methods of seeking comfort can be.

Perhaps it would be best to read things as presented instead of searching for personal attacks where none exist. Better yet, I'll just avoid the thread completely as it seems my comments are unwelcome. Have a nice day.

Moderateman

on Aug 29, 2005

it's called denial D, and I ain't talking about a river in Egypt either.

We pray for the hopeless becauswe the reality is to much to bear.

Those kind of prayers are selfish ones imo.

dharmagrl

on Aug 29, 2005

Obviously it was taken as a backhanded accusation, and it seemed as if that's exactly how it was meant to be taken.

Thank you, LW. I'm glad I wasn't imagining things....

it's called denial D, and I ain't talking about a river in Egypt either.

We pray for the hopeless becauswe the reality is to much to bear.

Those kind of prayers are selfish ones imo.

I have noticed a pattern in my prayers, MM. Even when I was deep into Buddhism, I still prayed at moments of extreme stress. like when I wrecked the Jeep, for example. I sat there, thinking I was dying and praying to god to not let me. Whenever Dave goes somewhere slightly risky I pray for him to come home safe. It seems that when I'm really, really scared about anything, I pray. I don't know if it's a release mechanisim...that the simple act of praying and sharing what your worried about or scared of with something bigger than yourself relieves some of the strain of bearing it alone. After all, Christ said something about 'come unto me, all you who are burdened, for my yoke is light and I can carry your load' (and I parpahrased a LOT there). I realize you're jewish, but I'm pretty sure there's something in the OT about that too.

Better yet, I'll just avoid the thread completely as it seems my comments are unwelcome. Have a nice day.

Think what you want, mason, and I'll think what I want.

HC1240

on Aug 29, 2005

Jesus said, "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." The phrase many Christians like to overlook is that "in my name". It's not like rubbing a genie's bottle and so long as you pray "in Jesus' name, Amen" you'll have what you're asked for. The phrase "in my name" means basically, "according to My will"... I share the desires of my heart with the Father, yet the bottom line is that I want His will to be done, so I'm willing to accept an answer that I don't necessarily want to hear, recognizing that He knows best. I think of that in terms of the situation you mentioned above, dharma... my instinct would be to pray as you would have..."please take release her from this misery and let her come home." At the same time, I would pray for comfort for D's grandmother, and that she would come to accept her sister's death as for the best. Underlying it all, however, would be the prayer that Jesus prayed in the garden when He was asking God to take the cup from Him... "...nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will." To give God (not that He needs me to give it to Him - but you know what I mean) the authority to act as He sees fit... that's what it's about for me. If He thought it would be best to restore D's great aunt to health, then He would do that, in spite of my prayer to take her home. Likewise, if I were praying for Him to make her well, He could just as easily take her Himself. Personally, I wouldn't want a God that I could manipulate. What kind of omnipotence is that?

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