One simple question....

on Aug 03, 2004

It's also ignorant of the fact that Christian theologians cannot be pinned down to a single set of beliefs...EVERY belief that is true of any branch of Christianity is contested by another, the only common denominators they have are: does God exist and? Is Christ real?

Which leads me to beleive - that internally there is so much conflict and confusion, that as a whole, Christians have no idea what part of christianity they conform to individually - i.e. they conform to whatever suits them...

I am not sniping anyone Gid... I was brought up a Catholic, and there are many, many consistencies that can assist my theory... there are factions within the church that support homosexuality, and there are factions that dont = Christianity confusion.

Homosexuality is certainly not a choice though - I sincerely beleive it is a genetic disposition... not an affliction, but a disposition. I have homosexual tendancies - i.e. I have style, and I get along famously with girls, and I love to shop, but if i had the choice to take it up the pooper, I would most certainly turn that down - you have to born with that desire... i can't see that becoming attractive to anyone who isn't inclined that way genetically.

BAM!!!

17

Janders

on Aug 03, 2004

I am a christian and I believe that people are ussually born one way or the other. I think religion and beliefs are very personal, and that just because one is a Christian, does not mean that they believe homosexuality is a choice.

I do think though that sex outside of marriage is a choice and that it is a sin, which of course opens up a whole new can of worms for gay people since our goverment seems to think we should npot let certian couples marry.

Dharma's point brings me to this comparison.

It is most Christian's believe that you should not damage your body.
So what if a person born with major depression is a cutter?

They were born with the illness, should they be punished since they cut as a result?

18

Phoenixboi

on Aug 03, 2004

but if i had the choice to take it up the pooper, I would most certainly turn that down - you have to born with that desire... i can't see that becoming attractive to anyone who isn't inclined that way genetically.

Im not into that either Muggaz does that mean im not really gay??

19

Muggaz

on Aug 03, 2004

Im not into that either Muggaz does that mean im not really gay??

Nah mate, I am pretty sure you are a queeny

I was speaking figuratively

BAM!!!

20

Janders

on Aug 03, 2004

I just realized my analogy sounded much better in my head.

It made sense to me but as I read it aloud, I see it might not make sense to anyone else.

Sorry, Im blonde. at least God loves blondes too.

21

Janders

on Aug 03, 2004

Oh, also in comparing Homosexuality with depresssion, I didn't mean to say that it was an illness.

You can't change being gay any more than you can change curly hair straight.

You can try brushing out the kinks, making it conform to your idea of its ideal texture, you can try expensive straighting methods. But deep down in your genes your hair is still curly.

So what i am saying is you can't make curly hair or gay people straight!

Ok, Im going to shut up now......

22

Gideon MacLeish

on Aug 03, 2004

Which leads me to beleive - that internally there is so much conflict and confusion, that as a whole, Christians have no idea what part of christianity they conform to individually - i.e. they conform to whatever suits them...

Actually, what it usually comes down to is whether or not they read the entire bible and take it in context.

Example: There's a popular school of thought in conservative Christian circles that teach that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because of homosexuality. They base this on part of the story of the destruction, taken out of context, in which the men of Sodom attempt to rape the angels that visit Lot. There are so many flaws with their argument it's not even funny. And yet, when you attempt to present them with FACTS (Ezekial 16:49 being one reference that says they were destroyed for "pride and excess of food while the poor and needy suffered outside her door"), they attempt to refute you with canned rhetoric from the last time their favorite televangelist hit upon the subject.

In conclusion: There's really not as much confusion as you think among those who STUDY the word, rather than relying on another's interpretation (remember, most pastors are really salesmen with a different product to sell).

23

Muggaz

on Aug 03, 2004

In conclusion: There's really not as much confusion as you think among those who STUDY the word, rather than relying on another's interpretation (remember, most pastors are really salesmen with a different product to sell).

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly Gid

It's just a shame that it's a very small percentage of 'Christians' who actually know anything about the word, let alone study it.

BAM!!!

24

Gideon MacLeish

on Aug 03, 2004

I agree, I actually wrote a blog on the subject entitled "Can You Read and Thump at the Same Time"

25

Phoenixboi

on Aug 03, 2004

I wish theyd keep their bedrooom out of public life, and quit making what they do there a social and political issue.

Is it more about what they do in their bedroom or more about equality when it comes to relationships, superannuation, rights as an individual, discrimination in the workplace... I dont think its about what position you have sexual intercourse in i think its more about society accepting there are differences and being more tolerant and open minded and less discriminatory when it comes to rights as a human being.

26

Gideon MacLeish

on Aug 03, 2004

Is it more about what they do in their bedroom or more about equality when it comes to relationships, superannuation, rights as an individual, discrimination in the workplace... I dont think its about what position you have sexual intercourse in i think its more about society accepting there are differences and being more tolerant and open minded and less discriminatory when it comes to rights as a human being.

And I will say I am 100% in favor of that position. I believe the chief qualifier for work should be "can you do the job?".

I will say one of my pet peeves is when gratuitous sexual behavior is paraded in the public (such as the floats that are presented by the media from "gay pride" parades). I feel the same way about heterosexual behavior, though...and hold the same standard. The actual sexual behavior belongs in the bedroom.

27

Robert Guinness

on Aug 03, 2004

having a predisposition for homosexual attraction is not a choice.

choosing to engage in homosexual acts and gay relationships is a choice.

having a predisposition for alcoholism is not a choice.

choosing to drink excessively is a choice.

28

Robert Guinness

on Aug 03, 2004

I had a Christian try to tell me yesterday that Christianity was a way of life - not a religion...

It is indeed a way of life. It's also a religion, but I think he or she was just trying to make a point.

If you don't see Christianity as a way of life, you don't understand Christianity.

29

Robert Guinness

on Aug 03, 2004

Is it more about what they do in their bedroom or more about equality when it comes to relationships, superannuation, rights as an individual, discrimination in the workplace

People who are gay have every right to engage in homosexual relationships, participate in government superannuation (called Social Security in the US), be an individual, and not be discriminated in the workplace. They also have the right to get married.

That doesn't give them the right to call whatever relationship they want marriage. Marriage is defined by hundreds of years of common law. Incidentally, people who are gay also have the right to petition for changes in law, run for political office, propose changes to constitutions, and of course vote.

Thus far, however, most of the efforts to change the status quo on marriage have failed the test of democracy. In fact, they have only sparked greater legal restraints on the definition of marriage (the Defense of Marriage Acts in the US). But no DOMA law (in the US) has been shown to violate any constitution (or bill of rights), except in Virginia and Massachusetts. In Virginia, they set up a parallel but distinct legal system for "civil unions." Same sex couples still can't get married in Virginia, so the only place marriage includes same-sex couples (in the US) is still Massachusetts, even though the majority of elected officials there voted to define it otherwise. Moreover, the court's decision was made by only a one judge split. So essentially the margin by which the definition of marriage extends to same sex couples rests on the basis of one judge's opinion.

30

Poetmom99

on Aug 03, 2004

...if the christian majority can accept that people are born with defects, conditions and differences...and that it's not their fault they were born that way....why is it that homosexuality is seen as a 'choice'? That, to me, is like saying that a person is schizophrenic by choice, or near sighted by choice.

I'm clueless on this one myself, and I am a Christian. When people give me the argument that homosexuality is a choice, I feel compelled to ask them just when it was that THEY chose to be a heterosexual...because I don't remember ever making a conscious choice to be one or the other....I just am the way I am and always have been.