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Is executing prisoners really solving anything?
Published on November 13, 2005 By dharmagrl In Misc

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I ran across CUDADP's web site earlier today.  Citizens United for Alternatives to the Death Penalty has soon good ideas. 

I'd like to share their mission statement with you:

Citizens United for Alternatives to the Death Penalty (CUADP) recognizes and upholds the responsibility of society to protect everyone from people who are dangerous, in particular, those who are convicted murderers.

CUADP also understands the legitimate response of human nature to seek vengeance in the form of harsh punishment for persons who have committed violent crimes. CUADP believes that as a society we are obligated to do better than to respond with a gut primal response, regardless of how natural that response may feel.

CUADP is concerned that our justice system is currently a retributive justice system which only heightens the pain and deepens the wounds of the families of victims of murder, the families of perpetrators, and the perpetrators themselves. CUADP also recognizes the strong ability of human nature to change and heal.

CUADP is concerned about well-documented and indisputably persistent problems in the application of the death penalty and in the criminal justice system as a whole in the United States of America.

CUADP calls attention to politicians who perpetuate a myth through their advocacy of the death penalty to demonstrate a "tough on crime" position on matters of public policy. To suggest that the death penalty is a deterrent to violent criminals and is a vehicle to somehow grant relief to the suffering of victims families is to deceive the constituents they serve.

CUADP calls on all citizens to urge their elected representatives to work towards violence prevention programs which identify and help "at-risk" youth and adults.

CUADP calls on all citizens to look beyond emotions and to learn the facts about how our system actually functions before deciding for themselves where they stand on the question of empowering the government to kill in their name.

Morally, socially and economically, the death penalty is a bad public policy. There is a better way.

Citizens United for Alternatives to the Death Penalty advocates the following as a viable alternative to the death penalty:

  • Persons convicted of capital murder should serve a minimum of 25 years in prison before the possibility of consideration for parole. Please note: consideration for parole in no way suggests an inmate will receive parole. Parole boards must abide by strict but fair standards in deciding who should receive parole. The abolition of parole endangers prison workers.
  • In certain cases, imprisonment should be for life, With no possibility of parole - ever.
  • While in prison, prisoners should work in jobs which are not slave-like and allow for some dignity and purpose of life for the inmate. Such work situations create safer conditions for guards and others who work in prisons.
  • A portion of the prisoners' earnings should go to pay for their incarceration, and a portion should go into a fund for the victims of violent crime and their survivors. This would allow for a restitution fund for social, psychological and religious help for victims and survivor families. Such funds could also provide financial help for families which have lost a wage earner to murder.

 

CUADP supports the concept of restorative justice, including the bringing together of perpetrators and victims family members by qualified professionals working with both, to help facilitate the process of reconciliation.


The following is a list of states which have the death penalty and which also offer life without parole as a sentencing option. Currently there are NO states with an integrated restorative justice program which would allow convicted murderers to pay for their own incarceration or even to make restitutions directly to the survivors of their victims.

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Federal Government, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee,US Military, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wyoming.

Total: 34 states

States with the death penalty but no provision for life without parole are Kansas, New Jersey, New Mexico & Texas.

Total: 4 states

The people want alternatives. "Tough on crime" prosecutors do not.

To Wit:

"You're not going to find 12 people back-to-back on the same jury that are going to kill somebody when the alternative is throwing away the key."

Harris County District Attorney Johnny Holmes

 

I've long struggled with the ethics of the death penalty.  I keep an eye on the Texas Death Row homepage, and I've seen that, over the years, the number of people being executed has risen, as has the number of people being sentenced to death.

How then, can we say that the death penalty is a deterrent?  If more people are committing violent crimes and being sentenced to death, is that deterrent effective?  I think not.  I think that in order for us to be able to truthfully say that it's effective we'd have to see a decrease in the kind of crime that gets a person sentenced to death. 

I think that when a person is sentenced to life in prison, it should mean just that - life.  That person should NEVER be eligilble for parole.  EVER.  I think too that prisoners should be made to help pay for their incarceration. 

Basically, I agree with pretty much everything this organization stands for. 

There has to be a better way than the death penalty.

Executing criminals isn't solving, or even deterring anything.

 

 


Comments (Page 1)
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on Nov 13, 2005

I cant really comment if the Death Penalty is a deterant overall (it would have prevented Willie Horton).  And life WOP?  Yea, they have no hope (and regardless of the hype not a lot of chance of escaping).  As they have no hope, does that make them more violent among their fellow prisoners?  Again I dont know.

In truth, I guess it is our inability to differentiate between the ones that will do it again, and the ones that had a lapse and should be given another chance.  I truly dont know, but I do know we do condemn some of the latter to a life with no chance of redemption.

I neither condone or condemn either method, except that we should never take a life, regardless (Kind of strange, eh?).  I think LWOP is a way to safe guard us from the animals, and sometimes the temporarily irrational people get caught in that.  But then, they did the crime.  We are fallible mortals.  We are not Gods.

on Nov 13, 2005

We are fallible mortals. We are not Gods.

Exactly.  There are no 'do overs' with the death penalty.  Hehe...if you read some of what these prisoners write, you'd think that death row is full of innocent people.  I know that's not the case - but I also know that there are people on death row who truly are innocent.  And it's because there are people like that that we should think about LWOP rather than the death penalty.

 

 

I'm all for being held accountable for your actions, for making people pay the price for what they did whether it's done in a moment of temporary insanity or over a lifetime of criminal activity.  I just don't think that the corrections system the way it is in this country is doing any good. 

on Nov 13, 2005
The only thing the death penalty cures (in theory) is recidivism.

I personally am morally opposed to the death penalty, but firmly believe that if we are going to retain the death penalty, we need to return to public executions...that would be FAR more likely to have value as a deterrent.

There are some interesting thoughts here, and it's not entirely out of line with my idea of a sort of supermax penal colony in Alaska, with the only way in and out being via helicopter transports conducted with the prison under TOTAL lockdown.
on Nov 13, 2005

but I also know that there are people on death row who truly are innocent.

Exactly!  Thank you!

on Nov 13, 2005
There are some interesting thoughts here, and it's not entirely out of line with my idea of a sort of supermax penal colony in Alaska, with the only way in and out being via helicopter transports conducted with the prison under TOTAL lockdown.


It's an idea....and maybe the shape of things to come.

I'm getting a t shirt that says 'why are we killing people who kill people to teach people that killing is wrong?' on the front of it.
Next to my 'the buddha is my homeboy' I think it's going to be my favorite one.
on Nov 13, 2005

Sounds like state-sponsored slavery to me.

Isn't that better than the state and tax payers supporting criminals?

on Nov 13, 2005

Sounds like state-sponsored slavery to me.

Isn't that better than the state and tax payers supporting criminals?

Sorry, I dont agree.  Slavery is by no actions on your part.  They made an action against society.  They forfeited their rights in doing so.  BIG difference.

on Nov 13, 2005

I would prefer the knowledge that someone who was incarcerated for the rest of their natural life was actually contributing for their upkeep rather than simply being a drain on the honest taxpayer.   

 

on Nov 13, 2005
Executing criminals isn't solving, or even deterring anything.


Like the man said, I like to think we're changing the world, one person at a time............

Having identified myself as the evil uncaring and socially and intellectually primitive conservative, I'll go on to say that I completely favor the death penalty, just in no fashion as it stands now. Speed it the hell up and harvest their organs when they're dead.

Oh yes, and while it doesn't need to apply to jaywalking, perhaps we could use it for more than unrepentant serial cop killers caught in the act of grinding up school children in a blender. It's uber inconsistent. Why kill a guy that kills eight people, but let out a guy that kills two in a matter of years?

The first cop shot and killed in my hometown was by a murderer paroled after eight years pulled over for speeding. He was on the way to kill his ex-girlfriend and her husband after he'd just killed her parents. Ancedotal evidence, I know, but I think the death penalty would have stopped about three deaths here.

Yes, I know if you make it faster you risk killing innocent people. But guess what. More people are killed by releasing criminals than we could wrongfully kill off if we worked at it. The system as it stands is responsible for a greater amount of death, due to it's fear of wrongful accusation. Say what you will, applying the death penalty is a surefire garauntee against repeat offenders.
on Nov 13, 2005
I like most of this, but I'm not big on the idea of life without parole, because you never know what things are going to be like 15, 20, 25 years down the road. Parole isn't automatic; if the parole boards do their jobs, the dangerous people wouldn't be let out.
on Nov 14, 2005
Excellent Article Dharma!!!

There is a saying that goes, "locks keep the honest man honest, the thief will get in anyway." In other words, locks aren't a deterent to anyone who really wants to steal your stuff. The same goes for fines, community service, jail, prison, forced labor camps, or even execution. The concept of "deterence" is a myth no matter what crime it's attached to. The fact is, no punishment we can dole out is ever a "deterent" because most criminals don't figure they are going to get caught.

We have an interesting situation here in Wisconsin where a man was convicted of rape, but after 18 years in prison new DNA evidence led to his conviction being overturned. If he were executed then his life couldn't be restored, but then again, those 18 years, his family, his reputation and everything else he lost from being branded a rapist can't be restored either. As an added twist to his situation, DNA evidence has now led to his arrest in a recent murder case. Justice demanded he be released when the DNA evidence exhonorated him, but the person who was released was not the same person who was convicted 18 years prior. If it turns out he did murder the woman did we do society (or even him) any favors by letting him out?

As far as your T-Shirt goes... does it make any more sense to lock someone up against their will for kidnapping? Or to take someone's money or seize property for stealing? Or even (my personal favorite) lock them up and make them dependent on taxpayer's money... for not paying taxes?
on Nov 14, 2005

Justice demanded he be released when the DNA evidence exhonorated him, but the person who was released was not the same person who was convicted 18 years prior.

No, but I'm not the same person I was yesterday either (the saying 'I may look like I'm doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm actually quite busy' comes to mind there).  I do get your point, though.  But isn't it better to have someone be able to walk out the prison gates for a crime he didn't comitt than be carried  out in a body bag?

The fact is, no punishment we can dole out is ever a "deterent" because most criminals don't figure they are going to get caught.

Jails are full because people don't think that they'll get caught....which means they're either stupid or are ignorant to the methods that are used to catch criminals these days.

I like most of this, but I'm not big on the idea of life without parole, because you never know what things are going to be like 15, 20, 25 years down the road

Do you mean society?  Or the criminal?  It's really easy to not molest little kids/rape/steal/shoot/stab someone in jail because they're not only being monitored 24/7, they've also been removed from society - the same society in which they did their crimes. 

If you're talking about society...I can't envision an time where society will ever be so different that we can allow convicted serial killers to live amongst us.

 

We're just going to disagree on this one, sistah. I say execute 'em, and quit taking 15 years to do it

Okay doke.  I can do that....

on Nov 14, 2005
There are some interesting thoughts here, and it's not entirely out of line with my idea of a sort of supermax penal colony in Alaska, with the only way in and out being via helicopter transports conducted with the prison under TOTAL lockdown


Pfft..you obviously have never been to Alaska. It's practically that now! haha....

I lived there for 3 years and can tell you a lot of criminals and pedophiles go there to get away from the "law." And most places in the interior are ONLY accessible by air anyway.....that would be one expensive proposition.

As for the death penalty. I agree with it. I think if you take a life, then you owe yours. If someone killed one of my kids, I'd want him to pay with his life. Period. Wasting away in prison reading, and watching tv is not my idea of punishment! Most AMERICANS work their whole lives to be able to do that, its called RETIREMENT.
on Nov 17, 2005
The only thing the death penalty cures (in theory) is recidivism.

I personally am morally opposed to the death penalty, but firmly believe that if we are going to retain the death penalty, we need to return to public executions...that would be FAR more likely to have value as a deterrent.

There are some interesting thoughts here, and it's not entirely out of line with my idea of a sort of supermax penal colony in Alaska, with the only way in and out being via helicopter transports conducted with the prison under TOTAL lockdown.


I personally think that the main reason that it's not more of a deterrent is simple really. The kind of criminals doing the kind of crimes that would warrant the death penalty think that they'll NEVER be caught! And if they do get caught they figure the lawyer is going to get them off.
on Nov 17, 2005
I am against the death penalty. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't think I could be responsible for the death of someone. I don't know what I would do if I were in the situation to defend someone else or myself but I can't imagine that I would be able to do it.

The fact that there are innocent people on death row and guilty people who could afford a great legal team out playing golf just sickens me.
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