One thing I've taken from Buddhism is the idea of 'noticing' my faults, not agonising about them or feeling guilty, 'sinful' or 'unworthy', but just giving them a kind of sympathetic 'attention'

That's what I;ve gained from it too. An ability to self-analyze, almost...to be aware of my reactions and actions without feeling horrible about them and to slowly try to replace those old ingrained reactions with new ways of dealing with stuff.

And give up ham, bacon, pork chops, ribs, roast pork with stuffing, sausage, smoked hocks (FABULOUS for seasoning fresh green beans) and deep fried pork rinds with hot sauce?

Dont forget Crabs and Shrimp!

Oy Vey!

I have to ask you this, though: how would you have felt if you had prayed for your child or for your taxes and those prayers hadn't been answered? Would that have put a dent in your faith or caused you to re-assess where you're at?

Honestly, I can't say with absolute certainty, because I don't think we can know how we will react in any given situation until we're faced with those circumstances in reality. All I can go by is how I felt at the point where I didn't know what would happen. Panic? Yes. Anxiety? Absolutely. But even then, not knowing what would happen, I was willing to let God be God and I was determined to see Him glorified no matter what happened. Here's an excerpt from a letter I sent to my church family a couple of days after the fire, when J's life was hanging in the balance.

"Our prayer is that whatever happens in this situation, Jesus Christ will be glorified. We know that He will sustain us, and we’re giving Jasmine to Him, releasing her into His care. Regardless of what the future holds for all of us, or how long the road may be, in the end, Jesus is still Lord. His name will be praised and exalted. God is sovereign and all-powerful. At this point, that’s all we can be sure of, and we trust in that."

It wasn't easy to place her life into God's hands and ask Him to do as He saw fit. I actually struggled with prayer for quite a while. I didn't know what to pray for, or if it would even make a difference (and I had been a solid believer in prayer my entire life). Yet here was my problem: I believe that God is sovereign, and that He will do as He wishes. Knowing (or believing) that, I often wondered what's the use in praying? If He had already decided what her fate would be, then why should I bother? Would my petition change His mind? Then He wouldn't be sovereign, would He? And is it arrogant to think that I could change His mind and alter His plans? Or does that just mean that He IS compassionate, caring about the cries of His children? It was such a wrestling match!

As I was trying to come to grips with these thoughts, I got a call from two nuns from a local convent (in Boston - I didn't know them personally). They said they just wanted to tell me that they knew prayer could be tough for someone in my situation, and they wanted me to know that they were praying FOR me, so that if I couldn't find the words, it was ok. They were interceding with God on my behalf. *tears* I felt as if God were speaking directly to me through them. It didn't matter that I didn't have the words... that I didn't even know what to pray for. He was providing in a way that I never would have expected (He's done that a lot in my life *s*). I also came to realize that it didn't matter what I had to say to Him, He wanted to hear my heart, and I could find comfort in laying it all out there for Him. He knows it anyway... and so it was more for me than for Him, but it gave me release.

There's a certain comfort for me now in knowing that He's in control. Being a first class type A control freak, that was tough for me at first, but my experience has been that there's a certain freedom in knowing that it's not all up to me. On the one hand, it's pointless to worry about things I have no control over (will the schoolbus crash on the way to that field trip in the next state over? Will terrorists take out the Empire State Building? Will I be diagnosed with lung cancer next year?). Not only that, but in recognizing that certain things are out of my control, I'm relieved from some of the responsibility that I tend to weigh myself down with.

Bad things happen to good people all the time... and for no apparent reason. Yes, free will comes into play and allows us to be evil, as much as it allows us to be good, and we all can become victims (or perpetrators) of that. I also think that we aren't able to see the big picture (and God is). There is so much more at play than we can grasp. It's like looking at the underneath of a needlepoint. We see all the messy tangles of threads, as our lives intersect one another (good and bad)... but we aren't able to see the finished tapestry and the beauty that results from the apparent chaos underneath. But I think there's more to it than that. I look at this world and everything in it as belonging to God. He gave my children to me to care for - for a time - and yet ultimately, they belong to Him (as does my house, my car, etc). I have had the awesome privilege of raising three beautiful children thus far. If He had decided that He wanted Jasmine to leave this earth and go to live with Him, then I guess that's His prerogative. I think it's easier for me to accept because I live within the scope of Christ's sacrifice for me. If God willingly gave His own Son, to suffer and die on my behalf, then who am I to question anything He does? In my eyes, He's earned the right to act as He sees fit. I recognize that this reasoning doesn't work for someone who's not operating from my perspective, though. I'll have to think some more on this one... wish I had a better answer.

I'll have to think some more on this one... wish I had a better answer.

No, the one that you gave was wonderful! I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was genuinely interested.

The reason I asked was because of something the Emperor of Ice Cream wrote a few months back, right after that boy scout who went missing had been found alive and well. His mother had made a statement saying something like "heaven isn't closed; prayers really are answered because we prayed to get our son back alive and that happened"...which made me wonder how in the hell that made jessica lunsford's parents feel when she was found murdered. I wondered if they felt like they had not prayed hard enough, had they not prayed at the right time, in the right way....what they had done that was so displeasing to their god that he chose to not answer their prayers.

It just made me wonder how you might have felt had your prayers not been answered.

" I am created SHIVA, destroyer of worlds"

One of the biggest issues I have with Christianity is all the crap that goes on in the world that god, being omnipotent and all powerful, does nothing about. I just can't accept that free will is the answer to all of it...

Have you ever watched your kids doing something stupid, knowing full well that it was not going to work out the way they thought it would.....and kept your mouth shut? Have you ever allowed your kid to get hurt running through the house because he wouldn't listen to you when you warned him to stop? Have you ever known your child was planning to do something wrong and said nothing until after they did it (even though you could have prevented it?)

Loving our children means teaching them, allowing them to learn from thier own mistakes and not always interviening. While the initial temptation is to protect and defend out children at all cost, the long term benifits outweighs the short term. If we love them, we let them learn. Even if it means skinning a knee, losing a job, losing a friend or getting in trouble. That's how we help them become better people.

He created us. He is our Father. I firmly believe that He holds back because he knows with 100% perfect certianty what will allow us to learn the most. Does that mean He failed when someone becomes angry and vengeful due to the bad things of life? No, they may choose to be spiteful in this life, but with perfect and clear knowlege that comes when we depart our mortal coil....we will see why and how. We will understand that to be happy sheep is not the plan. Even though pain and suffering are involved, sometimes that is part of the plan to make us stronger individuals.

Check my Joe. I feel a digression approaching and I'll move it elsewhere so I don't take over your thread.

Besides, pretty much ever denomination I know of would ask me to accept that the Bible is a complete and whole text, and after reading what I've read I don't believe that it is.

PS My church doesn't accept the Bible as the ONLY source of inspiration from God. Heck, we admit it's true...."as far as it is translated correctly" So don't assume that everyone will try to lock you into a sheep mode.

Check my Joe. I feel a digression approaching and I'll move it elsewhere so I don't take over your thread.

Nevermind. I decided I can't write it until I quit being a hypocrite.

His mother had made a statement saying something like "heaven isn't closed; prayers really are answered because we prayed to get our son back alive and that happened"...which made me wonder how in the hell that made jessica lunsford's parents feel when she was found murdered. I wondered if they felt like they had not prayed hard enough, had they not prayed at the right time, in the right way....what they had done that was so displeasing to their god that he chose to not answer their prayers.

That’s a good point, Dharma. For every testimony we hear about a person’s prayers being answered, we can hear two others about prayers not being answered. I think HC hit the nail on the head with her response:

There is so much more at play than we can grasp. It's like looking at the underneath of a needlepoint. We see all the messy tangles of threads, as our lives intersect one another (good and bad)... but we aren't able to see the finished tapestry and the beauty that results from the apparent chaos underneath.

I'm sure free will comes into it because we’ve freely decided to experience life in a shit-pit, albeit temporarily, with no conscious memory of Home, for an all-wise purpose. (At least this is my belief, as you're probably already aware). Blinks of an eye, these little lives down here, even though the benefits are eternal. In this sense, God wouldn't intervene for obvious reasons.

but just how realistic is it to ask a person to rein in their true selves, to deny their real persona? One thing I've taken from Buddhism is the idea of 'noticing' my faults, not agonising about them or feeling guilty, 'sinful' or 'unworthy', but just giving them a kind of sympathetic 'attention'. From something so simple a lot of insights often flow that I feel wouldn't emerge if I were beating myself up about it all

That’s one of the best things about Buddhism to me. The Buddhism that I've come across teaches us to accept the ‘is-ness’ of life, and of our present state of being, without judgement and without negative connotations. It’s like a complete form of liberation. If you’re feeling sinful, and give into temptation (in whatever form), then accept that that’s ‘where you were at’ at the time. Forgive yourself. God does. If you feel as angry as hell, and spit and fight, and get into trouble, then afterwards don't feel guilty, and don't beat yourself up. Honour your truths, feel your feelings. Love yourself unconditionally. God does. If you're feeling depressed and moody, then let those feelings be. At the end of it, just be self-aware. Whatever we do – ever – it's ‘where we’re at’ at the time. Learning to love ourself unconditionally is a great form of liberation. We're all eternal children of God, even though most the time there's room for spiritual growth. Whatever we do, God loves us unconditionally. I wish more Christians would refer to the story of the Prodigal Son. It's a great story.

I decided I can't write it until I quit being a hypocrite.

Spiritually speaking, hypocrites are about the only people I can admire. If one's system of values and ethics and one's spiritual aspirations are such that you can match them perfectly without ever failing, I don't think they can be that demanding.

""""I can dig the trinity they have""""

Trinitie

accept the ‘is-ness’ of life

To accept the 'now-ness' of life is probably a better phrase. To fall in love with the Now aligns our consciousness with God's Consciousness, and that's where liberation is found. Very Eastern, and very true. (It's all about the inner experience, as the Buddha taught. The more lifetimes we have, the more we grow, and the less discord we experience within.)

You know, my posts are either overwhelmingly annoying, or I'm on a different wavelength. I still can't get to grips with this JU lark.