Knitting. Yarn. Fiber artistry. More knitting. Nursing school. Hospice work. Death and the dying process. Phoenix Raven's. Knitting. Yarn. Oh, and Life As An Air Force Wife.
Published on August 3, 2004 By dharmagrl In Religion

Check these out:

"I went to a daily mass shortly after the 9-11 attacks. We needed comfort and to comfort each other. What we got was a homily saying we got what we deserved because we tolerate abortion. What is 3000 compared to millions of aborted?"

"At the end of a series of curing people of 'demon cancers' and purging 'satanic viruses,' [a faith healer] tells everyone that Jesus has told him that people should contribute $1000. ...I could see thousands of people reaching for their wallets and checkbooks at which point, he put his hand to his ear (wireless earphone) and said, 'Wait! Jesus just told me you can afford $2500 and some of you can give $10,000. This is what Jesus is asking for you to do. Some of you also want to leave a bequest, and we have financial advisors standing up here in front of the stage who can help with you that.'"

"Another pastor ...citing an OT text about the 'stiff-necked' Hebrews, insinuating that the Holocaust was the Jews' own fault. This incident played a not-insignificant role in my no longer belonging to that particular church body."

"When I was in the 6th grade, I attended a large charismatic church in Indiana. One time a fellow came and gave some talks about rock 'n roll music. Of course, he was arguing that ALL forms of rock music were Satanic. He pointed to the tragic deaths some rock stars have faced (granted, some who took their own lives, but also others who just died from accidents such as plane crashes) and would say, 'See! When the devil gets through with you, he kills you!'"

"I watched a young popular pastor on television... His sermon was, I'll assume, supposed to be about stewardship and blessings. The majority of it was taken up with his chastisement of lower-income members who put his church's bumper sticker on their 'ratty out-of-date heaps'! You read it right! He said that if they were good stewards G-d would be blessing them and they would be driving better cars. And as such, it reflected poorly on his church to project that image into the community."

 

"My former church... taught that theirs was the only valid church, and the membership was the only people going to Heaven. A member was filling in one Sunday, and decided during his talk to mention the memorial service for the Challenger astronauts, and President Reagan's stirring recitation of the poem during his talk. Specifically, he focused on the lines about 'slipping the bonds of Earth and touching the face of God.'
He then laughed and said 'I don't believe that for one second!' and then proceeded to say that he believed they were all likely burning in Hell. I was horrified, as you could imagine, and my mother had to talk to me after the service and remind me it was only his opinion."


"My childhood pastor, preaching at the funeral of a toddler who'd died in a farm accident, noting that the child hadn't been baptized and that s/he was now probably in hell because the parents (backslidden church members) were so careless about their child's eternal future -- something to the effect of, 'Hope they've learned their lesson.' Not only is this sucky theology, it was just MEAN and unacceptable."

"Listening to a guy go on and on about how TV was evil and that this was going to be one sad Christmas for our kids with Harry Potter toys and we were all going to hell and the clincher for me was when he actually told us that if he had a gun he would go to the Middle East and shoot people because 'after all it says an eye for and eye in the Bible'! ...and then after listening to him rant and rave he had the audacity to do an altar call!"

 

Wow......that's all I have to say about that!


Comments
on Aug 03, 2004
AMEN Dha...whoops I mean you really have hit the nail on the head as far as my feelings towards organized religion go. I find it tiresome when anyone uses "their" religion to condemn someones actions or beliefs. I have seen quite a bit of that in the new right wing of the Republican party and even on JU. I also get tired of correcting them when they call my statues of Buddha a "Deity" when he never claimed to be such. I think I went towards Buddhism because all of their answers were externally dependent, "Get saved!" "Get right with G-d" and so on. You can often find the solutions to your problems in life if you give yourself the chance.
ps: the amen was just a weak attempt at humor : )
on Aug 03, 2004

Geezer - always nice to see a friend of Greywar's on my humble blog!


I too get tired of people asking me if I pray to the Buddha...and I too turned to Buddhism because I wasn't getting answers that made any sense to me from elsewhere (read monotheistic religion).


Oh, and I got the 'Amen'..hehe.....


PS If you ever want to chat about Buddhism or life in general, drop me a line...my email address is on my blog page.

on Aug 03, 2004
This really doesn't concern the topic at hand, but I've noticed that you've had plenty to say about Christianity, most of which sounds as though you've developed a chip on your shoulder. Of course, I'm sure you have a Christian friend, which completely justifies your attitude. Good luck with the Zen.
on Aug 03, 2004

I've noticed that you've had plenty to say about Christianity, most of which sounds as though you've developed a chip on your shoulder.

Yes, I had noticed that myself.  I don't, not really.  I just have little tolerance for hypocrisy and manipulation, and I see a lot of that going on in certain congregations....I also see it happening in other aspects of life as well, and it bothers me just as much, so my ire is not limited to christianity.  I think that being a fervent christian hater is almost as bad as being a fervent christian, and I refuse to let myself go down that path....thanks for giving me a reality check!

I live in the northwest plains...99% of the people where I live are christians.  My whole family are christians.  i'm friends with the pastors and youth group leaders of our local church, and I get into debates with them on a regular basis about things biblical.  The biggest issue I have is with people who take things at face value. 'homosexuality is bad because the bible and my pastor say so' and statments like that make me want to shake people.  it's ok to think that things are bad, but have a better reason than 'because so and so said so' for heaven's sakes!

anyway, now I'm way off track and rambling...so I'll shut up.

 

on Aug 03, 2004
Sometimes, a private relationship is better than a organized religion. For me, I don't really have a religion, I have a relationship.

Churchs say bad things some times. Believers in my religion sometimes have opinions that don't necissarily go with the message that my religon wants to enforce like "Do unto others what you would have done to you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself". As they say, Christians are the worst advertisment for Christianity. I guess thats true for most religions, huh?

If you want to drop me a line about Buddhism in general, that'd be cool. I'm interested in why you picked it over other religions, and what you like about it, dislike, etc.
If you don't want to share, that's cool too. My email is on my blog site, or at least it should be I never can tell with this thing. I think I'm still on training wheels when it comes to running my blog.

Peace,

Beebes
on Aug 03, 2004
you really have hit the nail on the head as far as my feelings towards organized religion go.


Exactly.

I just don't believe in any religions. I believe that god exists, it's just that I think that god don't do micro-management.
on Aug 04, 2004
I've heard some of these attitudes expressed at various times in my life. While I know that they are not shared by mainstream Christians, it troubles me that they are the attitudes that get people's attention, and the ones that some people are likely to remember when people hear the word "Christian." It really and truly can make life difficult for those of us who are just trying to live the best Christian life we know how, and to provide an example through our lives, actions and words.

Of course, I'm sure you have a Christian friend, which completely justifies your attitude. Good luck with the Zen.


She has LOTS of Christian friends...and she doesn't hold our religious beliefs against us...

The biggest issue I have is with people who take things at face value. 'homosexuality is bad because the bible and my pastor say so' and statments like that make me want to shake people. it's ok to think that things are bad, but have a better reason than 'because so and so said so' for heaven's sakes!


Yes, yes, yes! Those are the folks who get us saddled with the comments along the lines of all Christians being sheep, following along blindly just because......

on Aug 04, 2004
I am sorry you have had such negative experiences with Christian Extreamists.
on Aug 04, 2004
dharma...

Yes, those represent some of the worst of Christianity. The one where the pastor chastised the poor in his congregation really got me. He apparently subscribes to the "God as cosmic vending machine" theology, a belief that is supported nowhere in scripture when taken in context.

One personal example that hit me was a pastor that resorted to begging because he wanted to build a million dollar church building instead of a "mere" $250,000 add on...he turned every sermon into begging, including telling people they should sacrifice their fishing boats and second cars...within a year, he and his wife lived in a gated community in the wealthiest part of town
on Aug 05, 2004

I think it's important to note that Christians don't have a monopoly over goofy behaviour. The Other Side may be just as bad, as today's 'Monks Behaving Badly' story suggests:

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia (AP) - Cambodia's acting head of state appealed to Buddhist monks Thursday to stop misbehaving after a string of scandals.

Several monks have grabbed newspaper headlines recently for fighting with slingshots and petrol bombs at a temple, molesting a boy, and for beating a man and stealing motorcycles.
At a three-day conference of 670 monks, nuns and religious officials, Chea Sim, president of the ruling Cambodian People's Party and acting head of state while King Norodom Sihanouk is away, said "negative acts" by some members of the monkhood "must be addressed, solved and improved."
Ninety per cent of Cambodia's 13 million people are Buddhist. There are about 60,000 monks living in more than 4,000 pagodas across the country.


I hope you find this as funny as I did.

Link

on Aug 06, 2004
I know Dharma knows not all pastors and religious leaders are like the ones she mentions in the article. Heck, I find the stories funny, but at the same time sad because they can be true. We all have to watch who we listen to. I've been talking on my blog about the American political scene and how ignorance and apathy being our main problem in politics. Same thing with religion. Few know what they believe and why or really care too.

I'm spending the year with CS Lewis as many may have observed, as well as with many other complimentary Christian philosophers. So much to blog about, so little time. I think we're called to be ready to give an answer for what we believe. And I don't think anything is intrinsically wrong with organized religion anymore than there is with organized government; if the people in it choose to obey what is right it will be a righteous institution. The same can be said for money, power, knowledge...

And I actually find a lot more freedom in my life from LETTING God do the micromanaging so I don't have to... I don't even have to worry about anything. It's just a thought.

Kudos, Dharma.
on Aug 07, 2004
Excellent post dharma, though from what little time I've spent here, I can already see that this seems to be about par for the course for you.

It's things like this that give cause me to draw pleasure sometimes for arguing ruthlessly with those trying to to convert me, though I'm not proud of it.
on Aug 09, 2004
Here's my little "bad sermon" antecdote.

I worship with a very, very small church, and much of it is military. With the exception of the minister and an elder, most of the men are gone. We wives are towing our children to church with our husbands in the middle east. Another woman is going through an unexpected and painful divorce.

What I'm getting at is, out of all of us, we have TWO married couples in regular attendance who are greatly outnumbered by those who are "single".

The minister has been very busy with administrative tasks and chose to treat us to a "guest speaker" in the form of a video. The sermon was compelling, truthful (in my estimation), and even humorous. Only one problem: it was about improving our marriages!

So we have the lonely military wives and the woman going through the divorce to end all divorces, and we are having a lesson full of ideas and anecdotes for lovely little yuppy couples. Sheesh. Am I just sensitive, or was that some messed up timing?