Beginnings and endings on death row.

Published on May 10, 2004 By dharmagrl In Misc

I've been reading the information about death row inmates on the Texas Deartment of Criminal Justice' web site.

There are a few different pages on there...'women on death row', 'offenders on death row' 'executed offenders' and 'scheduled executions'.

The 'Executed Offenders' page contains information about the offenders and their crimes, and also their last statements. In reading some of these, I am amazed at the amount of a) "innocent" men being put to death and the amount of born again christians - men and women who have done some horrendous things to and against their fellow man, but who go out proclaiming their faith in Jesus the saviour, certain that they will merely fall asleep and wake up in heaven because they have found God and have confessed and repented of their sins.

My first thought when reading about a 'born again killer' is that it's amazing how all the bravado and menacing attitudes disappear when it's crunch time. They're not such tough men when faced with the needle that will end their life. I wonder if they think, as they're being led into the death chamber, that this is how their victim's must have felt when they realized they were going to die.

My second thought is that it's not too amazing for them to have found faith whilst waiting to die. I mean, they didn't have anything else to do. I wonder though, how many of them were born again out of a love for god and his word, or out of the promise of eternal life in a glorious mansion in a place that has streets paved with gold, where a seat at god's table has been reserved especially for them. That they turned to religion because they couldn't handle the thought of death being the end. That they turned to religion because they couldn't handle the guilt of what they had done, couldn't forgive themselves and needed a 'higher power' to forgive them instead.

My third thought is that I wonder how many Christians are willing to share heaven with these guys, these murders, rapists and killers. Can you honestly say that you'd be more than happy to spend eternity with someone who beheaded his 3 small children? With someone who raped and strangled an elderly lady for her wedding ring? I don't think that I would.

Which leads me to my last thoughts. That reading about these people reminds me of how far I have yet to go on this path to enlightenment. Because sometimes I can't find any compassion within myself for these people. Because all I can feel when I read about them is disgust and sometimes anger. Because, instead of not wanting them to be out to death because it doesn't negate their crimes in any way or bring any victims back...I want them to be executed. I want their lives to be snuffed out.

I am again reminded that I am only human, and that I still have a long way to go.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

Comments (Page 2)

Joe98

on May 11, 2004

Errr... Sorry. I meant I hear you SISTER!!!

KarmaGirl

on May 11, 2004

Errr... Sorry. I meant I hear you SISTER!!!

dharmagrl

on May 11, 2004

It's ok, Joe. Happens all the time.

It all comes down to personal responsibility and accountability. I'm just amused by the amount of convicts who claim they're innocent (despite hard evidence that proves that they're not), and who claim to be 'born again'. I thought that being 'born again' meant that you were supposed to admit to your sins and transgressions in order for them to be forgiven. If they had said, "yeah, I did it, and I'm sorry, I deserve to die for what I did" then I'd be a little more convinced of their conversion.

messybuu

on May 11, 2004

I'm with you there. If they're truly repentful, then they'll understand why they're being punished.

crimson

on May 11, 2004

I dislike the idea of the death penalty based on my own moral reasons. I personally don't believe in killing anyone, period. However, I also think it's a shitty idea to set up an inmate within a system that basically allows the person a room, toilet, free food, and all the other amenities of prison... I don't know what the prison system is like in the States outside of the Hollywood version, but it's pretty damned soft up here, it seems. In Canada, inmates can earn a degree while serving time, can have access to all sorts of pluses like reading material, cigarettes, and remain segrated from a population that would otherwise tear them to pieces for the crimes they have committed.
So what's the answer? I just don't know. But, I'd like to hope that punishment can be doled out that suits the crime without ending in murder as well.

dharmagrl

on May 11, 2004

Unfortunately Canadian and US prison systems seem to be remarkably alike. Prisoners are afforded opportunites whilst incarcerated that they wouldn't have gotten had they been law abiding citizens. A lot of it is done in the name of 'rehabilitation'. It would seem that people have forgotten that prison time is supposed to be a punishment.

Have you heard of Joe Arapaio, Nicky? He's the Maricopa county Sherriff in Arizona..he has institued a 'tent city' in the grounds of the county jail. Inmates are housed in tents, wear pink underwear to stop them from wanting to steal it, eat bologna sandwiches, have to earn their coffee and sugar and don't have TV's (amongst other things). His reasoning for this treatment? He says that he doesn't see why criminals should have better living conditions and eat better food than the deployed members of the military, and he wants to make the jail experience one that no-one wants to repeat. I totally agree with him. The prisoners aren't too happy about the treatment, complaining about the lack of rehabilitation and educational programs. Joe's response is to tell them in no uncertain terms that if they don't like it, they shouldn't have broken the law.

crimson

on May 11, 2004

I'd agree too and say this, if it's rehabilitation that you need, then fine, prove it. Show that you've spent the time aware of your actions and repenting in retrospect. AFTER you've served all the time that you were sentenced to, neverminding the 'time off for good behaviour' crap, and then apply for a program to help your reintegration into society. As far as those who have committed horrendous crimes and will never be set free... no extras at all. See that punishment is doled out, not simply providing housing and food and those extras that many innocent law-abiding people cannot afford outside of the system, until death.

dharmagrl

on May 11, 2004

As far as those who have committed horrendous crimes and will never be set free... no extras at all. See that punishment is doled out, not simply providing housing and food and those extras that many innocent law-abiding people cannot afford outside of the system, until death.

I'd like to see that happen, but then we'd have human rights groups screaming about 'inhumane treatment and conditions' in prisons. It seems to me that the victim in a lot of cases is forgotten, or seen as merely a by-product of the crime....where was the humane treatment when these convicts were murdering their victims?

I saw something this evening that made me madder than I already was. I was watching a show about maximum security prisons, and this felon was on their complaining about how the corrections officers can "come in my house and ransack the place" - he was referring to his cell as his "house". WTF????? It's NOT your "house", it's a cell, and they can come in and toss the place any damn time they please. You gave away any rights to a "house" when you did that which got you a life sentence. Man, that just rubbed me the wrong way entirely....

crimson

on May 11, 2004

It seems to me that the victim in a lot of cases is forgotten, or seen as merely a by-product of the crime

what gets to me is the punishment that so often gets handed out seems so insignificant in comparison to those whom the crime was committed against. For instance, the punishment that pedophiles get often don't even amount to any hard time served, in comparison to the hell a child goes through. Most don't serve any prison time at all for a 'first offense' even though its more likely that it is a 'first time caught' situation.

dharmagrl

on May 11, 2004

Most don't serve any prison time at all for a 'first offense' even though its more likely that it is a 'first time caught' situation.

Exactly. They've prob'ly been doing it for a while..they just got lucky and didn't get busted.

There is, however, a pecking order in prison. Child molesters and those who prey on the elderly are at the botttom of the heap.

Some of the crimes people are committing...just blows my mind. Old folks beaten to death for a few pieces of jewelry..there's one case that i was reading about where this guy and his common law wife strangled, stabbed and then decapitated their 3 children, aged 3, 1 and 2 months. At his sentencing, he requested the death penalty because he "felt that God had forgiven him and he wanted to go to heaven to be with his children."

That exemplifies my point exactly.

notsohighlyevolved

on May 12, 2004

If we do not allow the concept of rehabilitation to determine the organisation and direction of imprisonment then you are going to breed a class of criminals that are little more than animals. Treat someone (anyone) like an animal and don't be to surprised when they turn into one. There is a large amount of literature that argues this point.

Of course you would have to make up your own mind.

All i know is that if i was locked up in a room for 23 out of 24 hours, had no access to books or external stimuli, had to spend my time instead talking to hardened criminals, or even worse was confined in solitary, I would be a very nasty specimen if i was ever let out.

And no we can't kill every criminal. What's the point in punishing people who act in accordance with State sanctioned behaviour.

The US is quickly learning the lesson that you cannot punish using brute force without expecting retribution, often paying a price that is greater than you are willing to pay.

In afganistan the US taught the Taliban and Jihadists how to use stinger missiles and the tactics of insurgency. The US taught these people how to be cold blooded killers and then act shock when those same people turn around and use the very same skills against their former masters.

The US has trained Colombian paramilitary how to crush revolutionary movements and then act surprised when these brutes turn up carrying out the same illegal activities that they were trained to supress.

Prisons, in my opinion, act in the same capacity. They squeeze the last remaining vestages of humaity left in an individual and turns them into someone who is a criminal through and through, rather than someone who merely has the potential of being a criminal.

Those inhuman specimens are more than likely going to be the same ones that kill the people you love, rob you blind on the streets, rape further women (or men), lie, cheat, steal, etc, etc

crimson

on May 12, 2004

Treat someone (anyone) like an animal and don't be to surprised when they turn into one.

I agree, but wouldn't you say that a serial killer already falls into that category? I think I failed to address that these were the criminals that I was referring to. However, understanding that many offenders create lesser crimes and are still facing incarceration, I agree with your point, but don't actually see that it helps all that much to the repeat offender. In fact, in the name of 'rehabilitation', many feel that prison really isn't a deterent when it comes to punishment. Many 'risks' are taken because the probable sentencing term is so light and the time spent inside specific jails seems more favorable and worth the chance.

notsohighlyevolved

on May 12, 2004

I guess my point is that a lot of the time it is often incarceration that is the cause of not only repeat offending but also an escalation in the type of offence commited.

Many lesser criminals cannot be re-integrated into wider society once they have served jail time. Sometimes the only choice they have is to turn back to crime.

I think that the effects of this de-socialisation can often be a contributing factor in the lessening capacity for sympathy and empathy that these ex-prisoners encounter. Both are hard to generate when you feel that other have little of either for you.

The same effects are noticed in young men during war. They can start with an understanding of the enemy as human beings, but once they witness the brutality of war, they attribute it to the people on the other end and in turn become capable of committing their own brutalities.

To live according to the rules of any society you actually have to feel that you are part of, and accepted by, that society. Sometimes the process of the judicial and penal systems leads to a confiscation of this fundamental connection with others.

kingbee

on May 12, 2004

good ol sheriff joe is still in office? if so, hes been there long enuff by now that there should be statistics with which it can be determined whether his approach is effective or just a new kinda dog and pony show. ill try to find out later today. as far as canadian prisons go, its my understanding they actually have programs in place intended to provide inmates with usefull skills they can draw upon when released. that is not at all the case in the us where correctional facilities follow the penitentiary model (the root word being penitent; the concept is you have time with nothing much else to do discover the errors of your ways) and the rehabiltiation or workhouse model in which youre given a chance to develop a useful skill as an alternative to being a professional thief for whatever. despite what you read or hear about prisons being the next best thing to summer camp (most of which is about as credible as those forwarded messages supposedly written by andy rooney or george carlin or some guy whos about to be shipped back to iraq), most state prisons were pretty unpleasant and way over utilized. many of those that teach vocational skills are technically obsolete so the skills learned are pretty much useless.

although you wont see this mentioned often, one of law enforcements dirty lil secrets is key to the whole process. most of the people in custody arent there because of dilligent, trained, effective streetsmart nypd blue kinda cops. im not a cop nor have i spent much time with cops. nor do i speak with experience from inside the justice system. ive spent a total of 5 days in custody spread over 40 years (since i turned 16) ive never been convicted of anything other than a traffic offence and i can only recall receiving about 5 over that same amount of time. (3 of those 5 days were spent waiting for someone to bail me out (case was dismissed because my public defender was pretty skillf and the both cops who took the stand perjured themselves

the secret i referred to is this: most people who are arrested and convicted seem to lack the abiity to think ahead more than about a half hour...if that. they dont do much planning, their crimes are committed on what seems like a a whim. and they dont put a lotta thought into the next step assuming. in short, they might as well be carrying an 'arrest me' sign. the biggest part of the enforcement/apprehension police mode is figuring out how to squeeze one more into the car. from what ive seen and heard, doing time doesnt wise em up. most get picked up within a month or two of being released. the net result being, the prison population doesnt include the brightest files in a cake.

there are usually several gang factions with smarter guys iassuming some are leaders. there are also murderers (a whole different type of criminal), sex offenders (usually housed away from the rest of the inmates) and even the occasional white collar criminal. by and large tho its the volunteers hahahaha. the places themselves are usually full beyond capacity.

i didnt mean to go on to this extent altho there is a point of sort in all this and that is...they arent at all fun and the inmates arent really being coddled. in addition to the regimentation, constant turmoil, lack of worthwhile useful relevant training opportunities and lack of privacy. worst of all tho, id think is having to live with loooooosers.

dharmagrl

on May 12, 2004

most of the people in custody arent there because of dilligent, trained, effective streetsmart nypd blue kinda cops. im not a cop nor have i spent much time with cops

I have spent time with cops, I used to work with cops, I'm married to a cop. Pretty much my entire life revolves around law enforcement, investigations, and the justice system...and I'd have to say that you're right. Most of the convicts are there because they're stupid and they go caught.

from what ive seen and heard, doing time doesnt wise em up.

Again, agreed. It also doesn't help that they are locked up with other stupid criminals and have time to sit around and exchange stupid criminal ideas.

they arent at all fun and the inmates arent really being coddled. in addition to the regimentation, constant turmoil, lack of worthwhile useful relevant training opportunities and lack of privacy. worst of all tho, id think is having to live with loooooosers.

I don't think that anyone's saying that they're 'fun'. The beef here is that they have opportunities presented to them that some law abiding citizens don't have..such as free medical care, and vocational and academic training...even, in some circumstances, a bed to sleep on and food to eat. That's where people's outrage about inequality comes from, I think, and that's why Joe Arapaio's program appeals to a lot of people.

You can 'go on' anytime you want to, Kingbee. I enjoy reading what you have to say.

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