Pascal's Wager

...is Christianity the easy way out?

Published on March 18, 2004 By dharmagrl In Philosophy

I was reading some of Pascal's 'Pensees' ( Blaise Pascal, 1623-1662) and thought that just for fun I'd post the Wager to see what kind of response it got...

It goes something like this:

"If you believe, and God exists, you gain everything. If you disbelieve, and God exists, you lose everything."

In other words...

"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. "

I wonder sometimes how many Christians base their belief system on something very similar to this......

Comments (Page 1)

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

Actually Pascal's Wager is worded a little differently. If you live the life of a Christian, which includes doing good works as well as believing in Christ and there is not God, then you will have lived a good life. If you live the life of a Christian which includes doing good works, and there is a God, then you will go to heaven after you die and you will have lived a good life on earth. On the other hand if you live as you please and there is a God you will go to hell. If you live as you please and there is no hell. Then you will have wasted your life even though there isn't a hell. Usually you put the wager on a table. and put the four choices in a box. On the sides you show the consequences.

The point of Pascal's wager is that living a good life is rewarding even if there isn't a God and living as you please will make you unhappy in the end.

I would say very few Christians live this way, because most people in this generation want to live a shallow for of Christianity but still have heaven.

dharmagrl

on Mar 18, 2004

The point of Pascal's wager is that living a good life is rewarding even if there isn't a God and living as you please will make you unhappy in the end.

No, Sheyre, that's YOUR translation of the meaning of the wager. Not everyone thinks the way you do, and just because it's your opinion doesn't make it the truth or any more valid, dig?

Yes, Pascal's wager is worded a little differently, there are many, many versions of it...I'll post the original taken directly from the Pensees (in French, no less) and then we'll all be happy. Your translation of it isn't the original translation either - and like I said before, just because it's your version/opinion/translation doesn't make it the truth or any more vaild.

That's the self-righteous "my opinion is the truth and that's just the way it is" attitude that really ticks me off.

dharmagrl

on Mar 18, 2004

Here's another version of the Wager...

If Christianity is true, then you stand to gain infinitely by accepting it. If it is false, then you stand to lose only a finite amount of well-being by accepting it. Therefore the odds make deciding to become a Christian the sensible move."

..and Sherye, I googled and asked jeeves but couldn't find anything remotely similar to what you quoted as being the 'correct' version ...where did you find it?

Dan Kaschel

on Mar 18, 2004

Dharmagrl- I'm sorry Sherye offended you... but you're overreaction. Sometimes you have to just forget the way somebody is saying something and concentrate one what they're saying; but I most certainly empathize.

As for the wager deal, the point is pretty clear. Here's a way of saying it that I think works for everybody:

Live a Christian life; you've everything to gain and nothing to lose.

But I don't agree with that of course, because knowledge is more important than wellbeing anyway. Of course, that's a whole blog in itself..

~Dan

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

http://www.saintmarys.edu/~incandel/pascalswager.html This is a link that argues Pascal's Wager as I did. Just because you didn't find anything like it on the internet means nothing. The internet has so many choices that it is hard to find all of them. I just happened to get my argument from theological seminary. This means it is biased, but so is your version. The refutation using a similar diagram is found on http://www.utexas.edu/courses/hilde/Philhandouts/pascal.html . So there you can see opposing philosophical arguments for Pascal's wager.

dharmagrl

on Mar 18, 2004

Thank you, that's just what i was asking for.

dharmagrl

on Mar 18, 2004

I went to both the sites Sherye gave me but could find nothing the worded the wager as she worded it. I have to conclude therefore, that her version is her interpretation. The arguments given to either vaildate or negate the wager, yes, but not the wager itself.

Just because you didn't find anything like it on the internet means nothing

Ok. Doesn't matter that I'm reading the Pensees, the book that the wager is included in, that's wrong, because Sherye's version is right because she says it's right.

It's all freakin' semantics...and we're losing sight of the point I was trying to make, of what I was trying to get people to talk about. How many modern Christians believe what they believe because of the argument set forth in Pascal's Wager?

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

Okay. Quote the entire wager, including the arguments that Pascal made for the wager, otherwise the wager makes no sense.

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

Of course if you quote it in French then no one who doesn't know French will be able to answer your question.

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

"Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. "That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. It is all divided; where-ever the infinite is and there is not an infinity of chances of loss against that of gain, there is no time to hesitate, you must give all. And thus, when one is forced to play, he must renounce reason to preserve his life, rather than risk it for infinite gain, as likely to happen as the loss of nothingness.

For it is no use to say it is uncertain if we will gain, and it is certain that we risk, and that the infinite distance between the certainly of what is staked and the uncertainty of what will be gained, equals the finite good which is certainly staked against the uncertain infinite. It is not so, as every player stakes a certainty to gain an uncertainty, and yet he stakes a finite certainty to gain a finite uncertainty, without transgressing against reason. There is not an infinite distance between the certainty staked and the uncertainty of the gain; that is untrue. In truth, there is an infinity between the certainty of gain and the certainty of loss. But the uncertainty of the gain is proportioned to the certainty of the stake according to the proportion of the chances of gain and loss. Hence it comes that, if there are as many risks on one side as on the other, the course is to play even; and then the certainty of the stake is equal to the uncertainty of the gain, so far is it from fact that there is an infinite distance between them. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain. This is demonstrable; and if men are capable of any truths, this is one.

"I confess it, I admit it. But, still, is there no means of seeing the faces of the cards?" Yes, Scripture and the rest, etc. "Yes, but I have my hands tied and my mouth closed; I am forced to wager, and am not free. I am not released, and am so made that I cannot believe. What, then, would you have me do?"

True. But at least learn your inability to believe, since reason brings you to this, and yet you cannot believe. Endeavour, then, to convince yourself, not by increase of proofs of God, but by the abatement of your passions. You would like to attain faith and do not know the way; you would like to cure yourself of unbelief and ask the remedy for it. Learn of those who have been bound like you, and who now stake all their possessions. These are people who know the way which you would follow, and who are cured of an ill of which you would be cured. Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed, taking the holy water, having masses said, etc. Even this will naturally make you believe, and deaden your acuteness. "But this is what I am afraid of." And why? What have you to lose?

But to show you that this leads you there, it is this which will lessen the passions, which are your stumbling-blocks.

The end of this discourse.--Now, what harm will befall you in taking this side? You will be faithful, humble, grateful, generous, a sincere friend, truthful. Certainly you will not have those poisonous pleasures, glory and luxury; but will you not have others? I will tell you that you will thereby gain in this life, and that, at each step you take on this road, you will see so great certainty of gain, so much nothingness in what you risk, that you will at last recognise that you have wagered for something certain and infinite, for which you have given nothing.

"Ah! This discourse transports me, charms me," etc.

If this discourse pleases you and seems impressive, know that it is made by a man who has knelt, both before and after it, in prayer to that Being, infinite and without parts, before whom he lays all he has, for you also to lay before Him all you have for your own good and for His glory, that so strength may be given to lowliness.

234. If we must not act save on a certainty, we ought not to act on religion, for it is not certain. But how many things we do on an uncertainty, sea voyages, battles! I say then we must do nothing at all, for nothing is certain, and that there is more certainty in religion than there is as to whether we may see to-morrow; for it is not certain that we may see to-morrow, and it is certainly possible that we may not, see it. We cannot say as much about religion. It is not certain that it is; but who will venture to say that it is certainly possible that it is not? Now when we work for to-morrow, and so on an uncertainty, we act reasonably; for we ought to work for an uncertainty according to the doctrine of chance which was demonstrated above.

Saint Augustine has seen that we work for an uncertainty, on sea, in battle, etc. But he has not seen the doctrine of chance which proves that we should do so. Montaigne has seen that we are shocked at a fool, and that habit is all-powerful; but he has not seen the reason of this effect.

All these persons have seen the effects, but they have not seen the causes. They are, in comparison with those who have discovered the causes, as those who have only eyes are in comparison with those who have intellect. For the effects are perceptible by sense, and the causes are visible only to the intellect. And although these effects are seen by the mind, this mind is, in comparison with the mind which sees the causes, as the bodily senses are in comparison with the intellect.

235. Rem viderunt, causam non viderunt.29

236. According to the doctrine of chance, you ought to put yourself to the trouble of searching for the truth; for if you die without worshipping the True Cause, you are lost. "But," say you, "if He had wished me to worship Him, He would have left me signs of His will." He has done so; but you neglect them. Seek them, therefore; it is well worth it.

237. Chances.--We must live differently in the world, according to these different assumptions: (1) that we could always remain in it; (2) that it is certain that we shall not remain here long, and uncertain if we shall remain here one hour. This last assumption is our condition.

238. What do you then promise me, in addition to certain troubles, but ten years of self-love (for ten years is the chance), to try hard to please without success?

239. Objection.--Those who hope for salvation are so far happy; but they have as a counterpoise the fear of hell.

Reply.--Who has most reason to fear hell: he who is in ignorance whether there is a hell, and who is certain of damnation if there is; or he who certainly believes there is a hell and hopes to be saved if there is?

240. "I would soon have renounced pleasure," say they, "had I faith." For my part I tell you, "You would soon have faith, if you renounced pleasure." Now, it is for you to begin. If I could, I would give you faith. I cannot do so, nor therefore test the truth of what you say. But you can well renounce pleasure and test whether what I say is true."
Here is a longer version of the wager including the arguments for it.

My version is an interpretation, it is not semantics. It just makes it easier to understand Pascal's arguments. Most Christians have never hear of Pascal let alone his argument. Very few modern Christians choose God for fear of hell. That is just an observation. If you want proof. Then I'll give you a survey.

Sherye Hanson

on Mar 18, 2004

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,520033697,00.html This survey says that 2/3s of Americans believe they are going to heaven.

dharmagrl

on Mar 18, 2004

No, Sherye, I don't want proof. You're not getting it. I wanted to know what you THINK, WHY you THINK, WHY you believe.

The argument that you gave is but one interpretation...and yes, the wager DOES make sense when it stands alone.
Dan didn't have a problem understanding it.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

JillUser

on Mar 18, 2004

dharmagrl, here is what I think: Many who believe tend to have an undescribable feeling in their hearts which we call faith. Faith can't be forced even if you are threatened with damnation. If you don't believe in your heart that there is a God and there is a Hell, damnation really isn't a threat. Taking the leap to say that you have to be Christian or fear damnation is another thing that I don't think can be forced. Believing that Jesus was an important spiritual leader and believing he is the son of God is quite something to wrap one's brain around. I think faith is the only thing that can bring you to that conclusion.

I think most scientific minds have trouble "believing". It is one of those sticky subjects where you can't prove or disprove anything. Either you believe or you don't. I am not saying however that if you don't currently have faith that it won't be found at some point. Many people have had change of heart inspired by life experience.

Having said that, I think that people who previously weren't religious tend to reevaluate their faith the older they get. I do believe that a certain amount of people go to church as an insurance policy (as a matter of speaking). When I say that, it is a conclusion I have come to after speaking at length with a lot of different groups regarding religion.

Something can make perfect sense on paper but make no sense when it comes to how you feel in your heart. Many people without faith have said they wish they could believe. It would certainly make life less scary. All of you who have strong faith, think of how desperate you would have felt in a lot of situations without your faith to fall back on.

I remember debating about Pascal back in middle school. I had a friend who was deeply religious and got very emotional every time we would debate this subject or the subject of abortion. I find if you put your own emotions and beliefs aside and listen, you can often learn either something about an opposing belief or confirm your own beliefs. Either way it is a benefitial exercise.

Thanks for the exercise dharmagrl!

JillUser

on Mar 18, 2004

One more thing, no mathematician or scientist of any kind will ever come up with a equation to convince someone they should believe God exists. Either you are open to existance or not. It is a conclusion that comes from within.

crimson

on Mar 18, 2004

Hey, it's cool that you posted this idea.. I was going to post something somewhat similar but from my cultural 'teachings'. I think the end question is the same though... here's mine.

There are some Aboriginal groups that believe in 'blood memory'. Blood memory is a belief that stems from an inner wanting to know the past of our culture. It is something that is awakened in our consciousness at a particular point in our lives that drives us 'home'. Some who experience it are people who have no knowledge of past traditions and ceremony, nor, no actual inclination to, before blood memory is invoked. It is sometimes prompted by sounds... the sound of The Drum, the sudden hearing of a voice guiding towards your path.

Now, some say that this is a matter of the soul. Others believe that it is biologically imprinted in your body.

Like your question regarding Pascal's wager it all depends on your idea of faith and how far it goes. Science could disprove it... but that often doesn't mean a thing, to those who believe.

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