The point that you seem to be missing is the FACT that he has a DOCUMENTED factual history of "chronic" back pain. And has as such ALL associated surguries that might have helped him. Which none did.

First of all, I'm not talking specifically about RL here. I'm talking about doctor shopping in general. Get past the RL scenario and look at the other things I'm talking about.....people who go around collecting as many prescriptions as they can for narcotics because they like them. not because they have pain that's uncontrooled, but because they get high on percocet or vicodin or whatever. Theres only so much that can be used for pain relief, y'know. The rest is for recreation.

What I'd really like to know is what do you have against Rush that you're screaming for his blood?

Where on this thread did I say that? I think you're getting your threads confused. As for what I have against him...well, he's a self-righteous hypocrite who made some incredibly insensitive remarks. I'd like to know why YOU can't admit that doctor shopping and being deceitful and manipulative to obtain prescriptions was wrong.

Where did we get so paranoid in our "war on drugs" that we decided that legitimate control of pain is a legal, instead of medical decision?

during the 1920s when the ama chose to cave on the issue rather than risk having to involve themselves in the cases of several doctors who were being prosecuted for violating laws which prohibited doctors from treating addiction. less than a decade later, it became commonplace for doctors to underprescribe narcotics in the misguided belief that a little excruciating pain wasn't too much to pay to avoid the risk of creating an addict. of course the drs weren't the ones in pain.

only in the past 20 years has the medical profession finally reevaluated this position--hence the introduction of devices that enable those in pain to adjust their own dosages. still there are a lotta people who suffer needlessly because of that attitude.

federal law requires the use of triplicate prescription forms for a number of drugs the dea--in its infinite wisdom--deems particularly abusable (oxycodone, hyrocodone, hydromorphone, etc.). supposedly trip scripts help to identify mds who may be overprescribing these drugs (it's still illegal for a physician to treat addiction btw unless he or she has a special license to do so).

it don't always work. a couple years back, there was a dr in ventura country who prescribed something like 900 oxycontins to each of 6 patients over the course of about a year...all of whom had their scrips filled by the same pharmacist.

no matter how much pain one is in--or how liberal a doctor may interpret dosing recommendations (hahahah funny that rush would have to seek out a liberal croaker huh?)--by the time one is receiving a reasonable dosage from several different doctors who are unaware of the others, it's fairly safe to say one is overmedicating oneself.

i have no problem with anyone who wishes to do just that even if it requires a clever ruse or two. like complaining of symptoms associated with kidney stones and then pricking one's finger so as to be able to mix a lil blood in with one's urine sample. or sending one's cleaning lady and maybe the neighbor's cleaning lady and maybe a few of their family members to make the rounds of soft-hearted gps who prefer cash to a lotta medical billing red tape.

but it is illegal. if you can't do the time cuz you're such a noxious, hypocritical loud-mouthed punk aint no question you're gonna be flavor of the month down to the county lockup, you shouldnt do the crime.

but it is illegal. if you can't do the time cuz you're such a noxious, hypocritical loud-mouthed punk aint no question you're gonna be flavor of the month down to the county lockup, you shouldn't do the crime.

Kingbee....just for your edification, I will reiterate what both Karen and I have said. Doctor shopping is only actually illegal in "one" state. And that's Florida.
But I throughly concur with the rest of your post.

Should 'Doctor Shopping' be a crime? By: dharmagrl Posted: 7/12/2005 4:38:38 PM on Life As An Air Force Wife.... Just when we thought Rush Limbaugh and his addiction to prescription drugs were old news, we're informed that he could be facing criminal charges for 'doctor shopping'. For those who don't know, 'doctor shopping' is a term used to describe drug seeking activity by patients with either a dependency on or a taste for prescription narcotics. Patients will go to a variety of different physicians, sometimes with a real ailment that they milk for all it's worth or an exaggerated/false illness, and they'll ask for a prescription for pain medications. Usually none of the physicians are aware that they're not the only one treating the patient, and if they do know about their shared care they're not usually aware that multiple prescriptions for narcotics are being written. People who engage in this activity will fill their prescriptions at different pharmacies, pay cash for their medications rather than file an insurance claim, and sometimes will use an assumed name in an effort to avoid detection. At the moment, only one state in the nation (Florida) has laws against doctor shopping.

Where on this thread did I say that? I think you're getting your threads confused. As for what I have against him...well, he's a self-righteous hypocrite who made some incredibly insensitive remarks. I'd like to know why YOU can't admit that doctor shopping and being deceitful and manipulative to obtain prescriptions was wrong.

No I didn't get my threads confused, I merely added them up, you know the 2+2=4 thing? I've "tried" explaining and telling you the why but I don't seem to be getting through to you. But I DO NOT see doctor shopping as wrong.

I think they shouldn't be punished, for the 'crime' like actions...because in the end...they've punished themselves...with the side effects, etc...

At the moment, only one state in the nation (Florida) has laws against doctor shopping.

it's a federal crime to obtain schedule i - schedule iv drugs by fraudulent means.

"it's a federal crime to obtain schedule i - schedule iv drugs by fraudulent means."

Like I said, though, fraud is pretty subjective. A guy has two more refills on his bottle from his old doctor, and switches to a new one who goes ahead and gives him a new presciption so he won't have to in a couple of weeks and, blammo, a felony drug charge.

At the moment, only one state in the nation (Florida) has laws against doctor shopping. it's a federal crime to obtain schedule i - schedule iv drugs by fraudulent means.

Doctor shopping does NOT fall under this! "If"it did the feds would be ALL over this by now and Rush would be facing federal charges and he'd be in "federal" court not FL state court! He did NOT obtain any drugs by a legally defined fraudulent means. And just an FYI if doctor shopping is "illegal" on a Federal level, where is the federal statute covering it. Just an FYI... you won't find any because the feds do not consider this to be fraud.

Just an FYI... you won't find any because the feds do not consider this to be fraud.

dont bet on it

21 USCS Section 843 (1996)
Section 843. Prohibited acts C
(a) Unlawful acts. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally--
(3) to acquire or obtain possession of a controlled substance by misrepresentation, fraud, forgery, deception, or subterfuge;

just cuz it's not often used as the basis for prosecution don't mean it can't be. in this case, i'm sure they'd rather let the state handle it.

and before you tell me he wasnt engaged in acquiring or obtaining a controlled substance by misrepresentation or deception, think about sending your maid to the doctor to get you some oxycontin.

A guy has two more refills on his bottle from his old doctor, and switches to a new one who goes ahead and gives him a new presciption so he won't have to in a couple of weeks and, blammo, a felony drug charge

the dea rarely gets involved with this kinda thing but there's always the potential. the people i've known who worked script scams were charged with some other offense...cut loose in return for ratting out their regular mds/pharmacists.

21 USCS Section 843 (1996) Section 843. Prohibited acts C (a) Unlawful acts. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally-- (3) to acquire or obtain possession of a controlled substance by misrepresentation, fraud, forgery, deception, or subterfuge; just cuz it's not often used as the basis for prosecution don't mean it can't be. in this case, i'm sure they'd rather let the state handle it. and before you tell me he wasn't engaged in acquiring or obtaining a controlled substance by misrepresentation or deception, think about sending your maid to the doctor to get you some oxycontin.

See your missing something in your premise. He did not use another name. He used HIS name on all perscriptions. So I think legally you'd have a hard time proving fraud. And an even harder time proving intent. As to him actually gettiing convicted of this...well we'll just have to wait and see.

Actually, it's proveable. You don't even have to dig into a person's medical records to do it. Physicians have to keep very accurate records of the narcotics they prescribe and whom they prescribe them to....

That is not exactly what I meant, but I think the example I provided gives the reason that it is unproveable.  In order to prove it, you have to get the medical records.  But you cant get the medical records unless you have proof it was done.  Catch 22.  Like Sodomoy laws.  You cant prove it unless you peek into a bedroom, and you cant do that without a search warrant which requires some evidence.

But you cant get the medical records unless you have proof it was done. Catch 22. Like Sodomoy laws. You cant prove it unless you peek into a bedroom, and you cant do that without a search warrant which requires some evidence.

But now, according to the Florida State Supreme Court, medical records can now be supeonad as a means of gathering evidence (instead of as a result of evidence). I guess the fishing is pretty good in Florida this time of year.

He did not use another name. He used HIS name on all perscriptions.

deception or subterfuge would cover seeing four different doctors if he didn't inform any of them about the others.

i just found a copy of the application for one search warrant and a list of the dates and types of medications he was prescribed over a several month period. i'm amazed he aint dead.

Short answer to your original question - no. It should be up to the medical community to police it, even if some fall through the cracks, not the local prosecutor. I think Florida's law is wrong and should be rescinded.

If done for profit, yes - if a physician suspects someone of malingering & seeking narcs to sell on the street, a simple "no" takes care of it. If caught selling narcs obtained fraudulently, they should be prosecuted.

Cheers,
Daiwa