When did it beome Ok?

Published on July 12, 2004 By dharmagrl In Current Events

I was thinking this afternoon, after writing that article about my 11 year old getting hit on at the pool....(that wood burning smell that some of you might have experienced was me thinking. Hope it didn't alarm you all too much)

When did it become ok to view 13 year old pubescent girls as sexual objects? Or even 14, 15 or 16 year olds? Apparently it's happened, and is still happening. Look at the amount of pedophila we have on the net. Look at the clothing being worn and attitudes being demostrated by girls as young as 10 and 11. Look at how we view the likes of Britney and Christina. Listen to the conversations of 12 year olds the next time you get a chance. When did it become ok for a 12 year old girl to consider herself 'hott'?!!

When did we start thinking that it's ok to let 'the system' step in and start parenting our children? When did having a social worker become normal, or even chic (and yes, in some circles, it is)?

When did we stop accepting responsibility for our own actions? When did we allow it to be ok to say "I beat my kids because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid"? Here's a thought - if you have enough presence of mind to know what's causing your issues, shouldn't you have enough presence of mind to fix your problem and perhaps not do it anymore? Instead of blaming it all on someone else? My dad beat the shit out of me and my brother. Does that give me the right to exhibit anti-social behviour and say that it's ok for me to be that way because it's my dad's fault?

When did we all get the strange idea that everything should be 'fair'? That what someone else has, I should be entitled to, just because? Here's another thought: shit happens. Life isn't fair. Instead of yelling about rights to this and that and the other, wouldn't it make more sense to play the hand that you've been dealt and do the best with what you have? Just as not all of us have the mental capacity to be molecular physicists, not all of us are going to be millionaires either.

When did we start telling our kids "you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you try hard enough". If that's not setting a kid up for failure......again, someone with an IQ of 100 isn't likely to be suited to neurosurgery. There is nothing, abosolutely nothing, wrong with being a garbage collector. Or a mechanic. Or a cashier at a grocery store. You're earning a wage, an honest wage, and if that's the job that you're suited to an have the the apitude for, then more power to you. I see so many kids kicking thmselves in the ass because they 'didn't try hard enough', when they don't need to.

Ok, here endeth today's rant. Anyone got any answers?

Comments (Page 1)

David St Hubbins

on Jul 12, 2004

When did it become ok to view 13 year old pubescent girls as sexual objects?

I remember the exact moment. Britney posing inappropriately on the cover of Rolling Stone Link ; it was a few years ago and I think she was 16 or so but that's the moment I thought "OK, this is going too far".
i'm trying to find a parallel to when I was growing up. Girls wore tube tops and short shorts in the 70s, so maybe we are overstating the clothing issue. It's the marketing of kids as sex objects, and the attitudes propagated by these pop tarts; that's what's different. I remember around 1979 my mom caused a fuss over my then 11 or 12 year old sister wearing a Peter Frampton concert shirt that said "Show Me The Way" - I didn't get it then, but I do now.

When did we start thinking that it's ok to let 'the system' step in and start parenting our children?

I was raised by a single parent, have dated girls from single parent homes, and dated single moms, so I've seen it from a few perspectives. I see social workers, psychiatrists, group homes, and cops acting as social workers, as filling a gap in single family households. I don't know what it is, maybe these single parents are overwhelmed and look to the state rather than family or friends for support, but they sure seem quick to call the cops or children's aid to help them parent. This happens in two parent housholds too, I think, as parents abdicate the responsibility of teaching kids values.

dharmagrl

on Jul 12, 2004

parents abdicate the responsibility of teaching kids values.

That's what I'm talking about! It takes a village to raise a child yes, but the parent is still responsible. Nowadays we have parents who both work full time and they leave it the daycare provider and then the school system to teach the kids any damn values. You CAN work and raise your kids, it just involves a little more work.....

I remember the exact moment. Britney posing inappropriately on the cover of Rolling Stone

I remember it as well. Very clearly.

Qoo3

on Jul 12, 2004

There are a number of people of my age who are parents who seem to believe that they should be friends to their children, rather than their children's parents. When their kids start hitting their teenage years, they begin to realise the error of their ways, as they have large, spoiled brats on their hands.

A child is not a pet. You can't put the kid in a kennel when you want a vacation. You need to set limits for the child, have rules, teach the child right from wrong (and other values), and you need to be consistent. You can't just decide to say, "Oh well, this is not for me" and walk away if you want your child to grow up and be a decent human being! I have some friends with two boys who are just hitting their teenage years. It's quite sad. The only time you hear one or the other of them say, "Mummy, I love you" is when she has got the credit card out to buy them some toy or videogame they want. I don't like going out with these friends if the kids are coming--their behavior is embarrassing to me...

dharmagrl

on Jul 12, 2004

Actually, dharma, it only became "not ok" in the past 75 years or so, and only not ok in western cultures. My own maternal grandmother was married at age 13, right here in the good old USA, my grandpa was 27 at the time and outlived her by 30 years. Wore her out, he did, with 11 children over 20 years and she died at age 57, while he went on to see his 80s

But isn't that a little different than looking at an 11 year old in a bikini and getting a chub? I mean, we're talking matrimony, procreation and pair-bonding, not necessarily looking at little girls as things to fuck and use.

I do see your point tho. I suppose the on'y difference between then and now is the lack of clothing and the fact that they did it all legal-like by getting hitched!

Mr_Frog

on Jul 12, 2004

fact that they did it all legal-like by getting hitched!

Hah! I seriously doubt that. Now I wouldn't take this as concrete history, but take a look at the film "Once apon a Time in America". You've got a girl, maybe 14 turning tricks on the local constabulary. Everyone wants to start fuckin' when their hormones kick in. It was just socially acceptable up until recent history.

-- B

pseudosoldier

on Jul 12, 2004

dharma - You asked if getting married at 13 is a little different than looking at an 11 year old in a sexual fashion. It's about the same as the difference between marrying a 22 year old or looking at an 18 year old in a sexual fashion. Yes, even with whip's counter-examples of the previous conventions of young marriage, your 11 year old is a bit too young.

dharmagrl

on Jul 12, 2004

I am reminded of the Jerry Lee Lewis 'scandal'...and yes Pseudo, you're right. She IS too young, and I swear the next asshole that touches her 'accidentally' I will freakin' drown....

Locamama

on Jul 12, 2004

I definately don't think its okay to look at a 11 year old girl sexually. I do think that girls develop a lot younger now than they did when I was in school. I mean I didn't need to wear a bra until after graduation, I suppose. I wore one for no reason so I wouldn't be a dork in a flowered undershirt in gym class but there definately wasn't anything in there. I took my niece, 8th grade, to school and could not believe how grown up these girls look. I do think that lots of the clothes are very sexy looking even for young girls but I have heard that there is a fashion trend going the opposite direction now. We'll call it the "I'm not a slut" look. I guess we'll believe that when we see it.

Poetmom99

on Jul 12, 2004

When did we start telling our kids "you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you try hard enough".

Well, it's been at least 35 yrs., at least in some families, because I remember being told that for as long as I can remember. And I have to disagree with it setting kids up for failure....I think it opens them up to a world of possibilities and dreams.

It takes a village to raise a child yes, but the parent is still responsible.

Hubby and I were having this exact same conversation over the weekend....about how, when we were kids, the whole neighborhood watched out for all the kids that lived there BUT when it came right down to it, it was your parents who were going to smack your rear end or what have you.

zweihander01

on Jul 12, 2004

dharma, dharma, dharma. So much older, yet so much more naive. 'Taking resposibility' is just too difficult for most human's fragile psyche. Pointing fingers and blaming anyone but yourself is SO much easier.

And when you begin the kicking-ass stage, remember: everything has eyes, a throat, liver/kidneys, and a crotch. And coincidently, those are always weak spots.

dharmagrl

on Jul 12, 2004

And I have to disagree with it setting kids up for failure....I think it opens them up to a world of possibilities and dreams.

This, I think, is the first thing we haven't agreed upon. Whilst I see your point that telling them that as a form of encouragement can be good, I think telling it to a child with a sub-average IQ and dreams of becoming a bio chemist is a bad thing. That kid can try as hard as they want to, if they don't have the physical capability.......they fail and feel like it's their fault because they obviously could have done it had they just tried harder.

Zwei...the more I read, the more I like you. You're right we've been taking the easy way out, and will continue to do so until someone forces us to accept responsibility and be held accountable. I'm trying to teach my kids that accountability is the way to go, and I'm trying to do that by example...so I KNOW how hard it is!

Dude, I worked with the PD for a while, and I'm married to a cop. I've tackled, taken down and cuffed guys, single handed...and I know that your thumb is only supposed to bend in one direction, that there's a VERY tender point right at the corner of your jaw and your ear and that sometimes hitting that spot just right will make people do exactly what you want them to do, when you want them to do it!

What do you do for a job? And would you mind posting a pic of yourself on my 'Its time for show and tell blog'? I'm really curious to see what you look like now.....

Poetmom99

on Jul 12, 2004

Yes, I think it is our first disagreement. But I can see what you're getting at, I think...it's just not something that 's been in my realm of experience when it comes to parenting. I suppose I WOULD have to develop a totally different mindset in that situation.

dharmagrl

on Jul 12, 2004

I try to tell my kids that car mechanics and hairdressers are just as important as surgeons and professors.....but that you should always try to give your best, no matter what you do!

CS Guy

on Jul 12, 2004

When did we start telling our kids "you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you try hard enough".

The strange thing to me is that my mother was always telling me this when I was growing up. But I never really believed her. I always saw it as a mother feeding B.S. to her son. I don't know why I thought that, but I did. It wasn't until I was in college and trying to decide on a path for life that I realized she was right, but I realized that my situation was not typical.

My opnion that everyone is not suited for every career path was reinforced when I was a teacher. There were many student's who simply did not have the talent, or mind-set, necessary for Computer Science. Part of my job was to discourage these students from staying in the program. Many of these kids were CS majors only because it was a hot industry. They entered the program for the same reason I had entered Aerospace Engineering. I actually had several come to me in later semesters saying they appreciated my class because it taught them that they would not be happy in CS.

So I can see how some people might consider unrealistic encouragement to be a bad thing.

CS Guy

on Jul 12, 2004

I try to tell my kids that car mechanics and hairdressers are just as important as surgeons and professors.....but that you should always try to give your best, no matter what you do!

I think that's the best solution. Hell, I wish I had a mechanic's skills, or a carpenter's. I love working with wood (keep your thoughts clean), but I never have the time nor equipment to really get into it. Maybe when I retire I'll get a chance.

In addition to your laudable advice, I would add "Do what makes you happy."

I could have been a lawyer like my brother. I have the analytical skills, and with my background in technology I could have made A LOT of money at it. My brother's B.S. degree in Civil Engineering was critical to his success. I could also be making A LOT more money now if I were willing to move into more managerial positions.

But I would not have been happy doing either of those. I like being a Software Engineer. I like creating something. And I would never be happy with a job that required me to lie.

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